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Secondary education

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Original poster

Can anyone talk to me about Core Science GCSE as opposed to Triple Science please ?

84 replies

AnyFucker · 26/05/2014 22:32

My DC just got refused Triple Science at yr 9 options and told that Core Science is adequate

I am not convinced this is a good thing. DC is quite "sciency" and likes medical type stuff although not chosen exactly what career yet. School attendance is excellent and grades are good so far.

I am not happy about this. Can anyone help me form an appeal ? All I seem to be aware of is that anything vaguely science or medical based in Higher Education would require something better than a combined science GCSE.

OP posts:
Nocomet · 27/05/2014 10:22

Legume, oops Grin

P3ppaPig · 27/05/2014 10:50

nocomet I very much agree with you. If your dd is at that level, imo, she should be able to do triple. A couple of years back I fought for one of my severely dyslexic pupils to take triple (my HOD disagreed after teacher her for a few months). She had fantastic subject knowledge. I won Grin (as always!) and she achieved 3As.

AF, for you ds to only get half of his choices, I think you are well within your rights to approach the school. They obviously can't meet everyone's requirements, but he does seem a little hard done by. I know I'd be annoyed if it were my dc.
Were they given their options last week? The school should be happy to meet with you to discuss and hopefully try again to see if there is another way forward. But please don't think core/additional will close doors for him.

TalkinPeace · 27/05/2014 10:59

OP
Its tricky. In most cases the school will have the child's interests at heart - because they align.

At DCs school the bottom set do core science only
The next set does core and additional in two slots
The middle set do core and additional in one slot
The second set do triple science in three lessons
Only the top set do triple science in two slots

also a fair few C/D boundary kids get moved across to the IGCSE as its distinctly easier.

The school would much rather a lower number of GCSE passes at higher grades than bundles of B and C grades.

What happened in our generation is not applicable to today (I was allowed to do an A level with a B grade at combined science GCE for example)

but communication is key : talk to the teachers and understand what the whole cohort are doing to get your head around the rationale.

Original poster
AnyFucker · 27/05/2014 11:18

Peppa, thanks. Yes, the options (or lack of them...) were given last week. I have phoned school this morning but there is no one around to talk to me this week, so I need to call back next Monday.

This thread is helping me to have a balanced view. I can see some merit in getting better grades at dual science than spreading more thinly for triple and potentially getting worse grades. If they can reassure me it won't work against him if he wants to do any sciences at A level, I will feel my concerns have been addressed.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnyFucker · 27/05/2014 11:22

They have 8 "groups" at the moment for science. DS is in group 2. I would have thought groups 1 and 2 out of 8 would be signposted to triple science. Maybe not ?

I have always trusted school to do the right thing going right back 7 years. A conversation required, I think.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 27/05/2014 11:30

Anyfucker
It really helps to think of it across the whole cohort ....
DCs school has two "bands" each with five "sets"
so there are potentially 60 kids doing fast track triple.
In fact its nearer 45 as kids have had to drop back to double (as their timetable slots do not let them drop back to slow track triple)
and there have been kids whose parents cannot accept that two A's will look better than two B's and a C

talk to them and make them explain their stance.
they may convince you, you may convince them
but at least then you'll be moving into year 10 supporting the classes that are being taken (which is actually the most important thing)

Original poster
AnyFucker · 27/05/2014 11:33

That is what I am going to do, TP Smile

OP posts:
uggmum · 27/05/2014 11:44

My dd really wanted to do triple. But at the year 9 options evening one science teacher said her grades where not high enough and she wouldn't get on the course.

I did a lot of research and core will enable her to get into a good uni to study genetics/cells etc.

Fast forward to year 10 and school write to me asking why dd did not choose triple as they consider her to be gifted!

I wasn't best pleased and gave school some feedback on this. The head of science has since apologised and have admitted they got it wrong.

Dd is doing well in core and is on track for A*

fiddlefaddleoh · 27/05/2014 11:57

Just to add to the "broad education" point, I was keen that my DS did triple science exactly because he WASN'T going to continue with Sciences to A level. I wanted him to learn as much as possible as it was probably the last time in his life that he was going to do any science.

He did fine, and enjoyed it. And is done with it, having gone onto Languages/Humanities A levels. It would seem to me that if you are capable of it, you should keep as broad a base of subjects open for as long as possible.

Obviously this isn't sensible in these grade obsessed times if it is going to affect your other grades, and therefore your options for the future, but if it is feasible it seems sensible to take any subject as far as you are able. Isn't this education ?

It's possible we were wrong. Perhaps everything covered in core science is all you need for life ? And perhaps it just added more exams and stress to an otherwise very busy year.

Coconutty · 27/05/2014 13:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
AnyFucker · 27/05/2014 13:38

Thanks.

OP posts:
kscience · 29/05/2014 18:59

Hello OP
You have been given lots of good advice.
What can't be second guessed is the numbers of pupils wanting to take triple science as an option and what their grades are compared to your sons.

As a department we have been pushing for 2 sets of triple science, but we do not have the number of staff to cover this (despite triple not having extra time over double) so have a finite number of places and over double the number of pupils wanting to take the subject (well I guess we must be doing something right). I have pupils working at 6a/7c boarder who I don't think are going to get in.

Another consideration that has played a part this year is the changes in GCSE, where pupils now have to sit all of the exam papers at the end of year 11. That means that triple candidates will be sitting 9 papers in science alone (previously they took 3 in yr9, 3 in yr10 and 3 in yr11). That's a lot of pressure for some kids and I am of the opinion that as they will not be disadvantaged by taking "double science" I would rather take the pressure off and let them enjoy the subject at a pace that stretches them, but does not make life miserable and stressful for them.

I hope a chat with the head of science clarifies things for you.

Original poster
AnyFucker · 29/05/2014 20:56

Thanks, ks, duly noted

We have just today received his summer term 1 progress monitoring report. He is now 6A in science. 7C in English, Maths and History (amongst others). So clearly an able student in academic subjects.

I felt quite angry at first but this thread has helped me temper my thoughts. We will plump for dual science if I am satisfied he will not get streamed with idiots, pushed to get A/A, and that local colleges will accept that for any science 'A' levels he may or may not choose to take.

OP posts:
RaspberryLemonPavlova · 30/05/2014 00:54

I would have thought set 2 of 8 would still have contained very able students AF, with regard to your concern of the other students in it.

How many in year group? DCs school has 9 or 10 sets for 240 children, but there are 96 in the top 3 sets doing triple.

Original poster
AnyFucker · 30/05/2014 07:14

"Idiots" as in idiotic behaviour. The school doesn't have a great record for behaviour management.

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 30/05/2014 07:23

My DS was originally allocated double science because the school's time tabling meant that to get extra support in English (he's dyslexic) he was automatically out in the top double science group, regardless of his level. He's a 6A. More worryingly, being in double science, even the top group, meant that he couldn't (for time tabling reasons) be in the top maths set. He's currently 7A in maths (and makes no effort whatsoever). We questioned this and the maths and science teachers made a fuss (we were not sure whether to make a fuss, hence we started with just a query). He wanted to do triple. The school relented and found a way to allow him to access the extra support in English while still doing triple and being in the appropriate maths set (he prob won't want to do chem or biol at A level but he will likely want to do physics. And maths). Now they have realised how little effort he has expended on maths so far they are pushing him there too. I worry hugely about his English but I feel that the school did the right thing reallocating him to triple. I'm not a 'science is everything' person, I was not happy that Dd1 (different school) was forced to do triple and that Dd2 will be too, since they are arty and would prefer/have preferred subjects relevant to their interests and ambitions. But for DS it's the right choice.

Nocomet · 30/05/2014 08:30

HercShipwright I'm really glad your school saw sense.

Choice is the crux of the matter. It seems a very large number of schools aren't offering any choice.

Because ours shoe horns triple into two time table slots, it's purely offered to DCs they think have the maths and English skills to work at that speed.

Certainly this year it doesn't seem to have worked very well as DD says they have been staying after school a lot to keep up.

pointythings · 30/05/2014 12:30

Our school does triple in a double slot and only 30 in the year are being invited to do it - they're starting their GCSE course in Yr9 so have already done options in Yr8. DD1 is a 7c and predicted a 7b by the end of the year, all of those being invited to do triple are at this level. I think schools are getting pickier because they know the exams are being made tougher and they don't want to look bad in the league tables. It's a pity this leaves a lot of enthusiastic sciency kids without the choices they should have.

shelsco · 30/05/2014 14:21

Mmm, well DS was a 7A in Year 9 but school didn't offer triple science as an option to anyone. I had the discussion with the school who said it didn't really matter, there is such a jump from GCSE to A level anyway, it makes no difference whether they do triple or award or not. As it happens Ds has now turned out to be dyslexic (that explains why he has been running out of time for years!) and now he has started doing papers in timed conditions he can't finish them anyway. (School refusing extra time, against JCQ guidance and specialist assessor, but that's another story). so it is probably just as well he didn't end up doing triple award but still.. There were a good few in his class who were level 7s and all told that school doesn't offer triple so tough luck! I though it was common but it doesn't sound to be the case judging from your comments.

gardenfeature · 30/05/2014 16:26

DS has just opted for Double as opposed to Triple so I am interested in this thread. I also have mixed feelings as he was a comfortable Level 7 in Science but he is happy with his choices and doing the Triple would have meant losing an option. He's also doing Computer Science which counts as a Science. Another Mum told me that she hadn't realised just how science heavy her son's timetable would be when he opted for the Triple.

Not sure if I am 100% correct on this but I think that another benefit of doing the Double would be that they do 3 exams at the end of Year 10 and then a further Additional 3 at the end of Year 11 whereas the Triple students will be doing all 9 at the end of Year 11, along with all the other Year 11 exams.

DS also has dyslexia so fewer exams at the end of Year 11 could be a good thing and free up some time to concentrate on all the others.

summerends · 30/05/2014 16:29

Some independent schools notably Radley only offer double science (examined with the much easier IGCSE Wink). Despite that they get a high take up of sciences in sixth form and excellent science A level results.
It is therefore at least theoretically possible to not do triple science but be sufficiently extended to then do well at A level. You could argue that understanding important concepts well in double science is more important than spending lots of time learning extra facts in triple science for those who want to do further science but might struggle for various reasons with accelerated learning / exam heavy timetable.

PetraArkanian · 30/05/2014 16:40

Just out of interest is it possible to do a single science gcse? Say physics? So the L1,2,3 parts of the triple science ones but only the physics modules? Or does everyone have to do all 3 now?

Original poster
AnyFucker · 30/05/2014 17:22

GF, you are correct I think re the exam timetabling. I had looked at that too.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnyFucker · 30/05/2014 17:24

PA, I don't think so. Not in state-run schools anyway.

OP posts:
RaspberryLemonPavlova · 30/05/2014 17:34

DS1 currrently doing GCSE has only 6 exams, 2 for each, so clearly different boards do different things.

I forget how lucky we are, all subjects in DCs school are treated separately so DC are in the appropriate sets. Also they don't lose an option, but they do start GCSE for science and Maths in Y9 so can take 3 years over science.

Our Sixth form will still take students for Alevels from the Double courses as long as the results are good enough by the way.

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