Towards the end of Y7, the good, the bad and the ugly grades - independent secondary

[QuintessentiallyQS]

The good news is that ds has settled in well and made friends.

The bad news is that he is lazy, and cant be bothered most of the time, and I have had stress trying to get him to do anything at all this school year.

His grades are not looking good. Mid year exams were mostly bs and cs. He is in top set for maths, and his grades are hovering in the 60s (75% for maths), but as per the schools percentile system, he is in 3,4, and sadly 5 for most.

He has had dententions for not doing history, geography and science home works. He has told me he has no homework as has done in school. He has made an effort with Maths, and that has clearly paid off as he is doing in well and I dont understand his maths at all.

How much importance do I place on Y7? What is the correlation between his grades now and gcse?

I am in two minds. On the one hand, I want him to have a good education. On the other, he needs to work for it. The grades, and his efforts are telling me that either:

1. He has not got the ability to do better
2. He cant be bothered

The end result is poor grades, and I am not willing to pay for him to have poor grades and hover just above the bottom of the year group.

So, do I move him out of the independent to our local secondary now, or do I wait until the end of Y8?

Is there a point paying astronomical fees when you have a bright child who just doesnt care?

I would give it more time. If he has come from a state junior school and most of the year group are from the private junior school/other prep schools then he will be at a disadvantage. Whilst state schools concentrate on English and maths in years 5 and 6, the independent schools give just as much importance to science,geography,history,French etc.These children will have already had some experience of writing history essays and answering source/evidence questions often with subject specialist teachers. Maybe he's feeling out of his depth at the moment (those evidence questions can be tricky) but he passed the entrance exam and so he should be capable of catching up. Have you spoken to his tutors? Take a look at the Galore Park website and perhaps try some of the revision guides for common entrance (also suitable for KS3, especially if he's studying the medieval period). Galore Park are publishing new guides shortly but there's a free download available for history with a couple of essay/evidence questions and suggested answers which might help.

A NI perspective. My son did 11+ in 2009. He got bottom grade at the time "D". That sounds awful but with marking system as it was, bottom 55% if those who sat it got that grade so you coul be "above average" and still get "D". Barbaric-but that's the system! He went to a boys grammar-which anyone in NI would know us actually "a fee paying comprehensive"! (For the cream of society-rich&thick! He is neither! As are most of the boys!!). For once in his life he found that he wasn't bottom of his class. He was a big fish and that really spurred him on to want to achieve. He is now at gcse stage and while he won't get the 11 A* that his sister got , he is on course to get a mix of A/B through hard work on his part and on his teachers' part-coupled with wise subject choices. His sister is mathematician and scientist. He does well in practical subjects such as tech, hospitality and pe. The match of child, school and subjects is so important. My son loves school-thankfully it costs nowhere near the price of a fee paying English school but it has been money well spent in his case!

Yr 7 is tough, esp for boys imv. Many don't have the organizational skills to negotiate through different subjects, lessons, teachers and rooms.

It's socially tough too, with a lot of jostling for position between kids who don't know each other well. And they have to reassess each other each term. Does he have friends? Is he happy? Do you know what he feels about it?

The correlation between yr 7 and 11 isn't v high, save at the extremes.

So I wouldn't worry about the humanities.

What I would worry about a bit, not too much as most children do it at some time, is less the idleness than the lying about the homework. It seems to me that that is indicative of panic and lack of understanding of consequences.

I'd talk to him in a relaxed non threatening, no eye contact fashion, doing something else, and find out what's really going on. He sounds hugely talented, at maths, but his confidence might be at rock bottom. He may need cuddles and support, and to be told that you will crack this jointly, come what may. And that you are so proud of him. And you know that he will do really well, and he needs to trust you when things are hard.

Been in a similar place.

Can you ask for him to be put on some sort of daily report card where the teachers score him for effort in each lesson every day? And also document what homework he has.

You can then give him a rocketing if he needs it and make sure he does what homework he's meant to.

It is true, at 42, I am a young mum!

He is happy. It was also his school of choice. The nearest to our house, so he can walk to and from school, which is great.

He is finally settled, and has made friends. The last few years have been tough on him with a lot of moving around, so I guess we have to stick with it and stop uprooting him. He was used to being top of the class in Norway, and he became top of the class pretty quickly when he came back here, worked really hard for it. Sat L 6 sats, and even managed a L 5a for English.

But I wonder if he has let subjects slide because they are hard, different, and he has focused on getting to grips with the transition and the new environment. He says all the teachers has such high expectations.

His English teacher says she does not think of him as a non-native and judge him like the other children who has lived here all their lives, and with British parents. But it is hard to see how he can get from a L5a to a 48% mark in his mid year exams. Maybe the level is just very high. There is just one child from each of the local state primaries (maybe 2 from some? He is the only from his though), the rest are from local preps and the schools junior department.

He has opted for German and Spanish for his Y8 languages, opting away from Mandarin even if doing well in it. I worry about the German due to the grammar. He is also going to opt out of Ethics, although I think learning critical thinking and constructing an argument and debating will only do him good. But I cant push him into subjects he does not want. I have never really been a pushy parent, maybe I have been too lax and that is biting us in the bum now?

I think that there may be a difference in teaching styles and expectations and what they are being asked to do.

Ds has given up English with great joy as he has struggled with it, though z native speaker, and I am convinced that a small element of it was that those who came from traditional prep schools were taught from year 3 it so how to do it. But he is dyslexic as well. I see no reason why your Ds should not catch up, but it might be worth some extra support.

Based on what your description. And previous threads I would have thought your ds was ideal for I dependent school. He sounds rather similar to ds1 , I have no doubts I independent was right for him because he needed constant carrot and sometimes a bit of stick . He needed someone to notice when he was giving up , getting switched off, and get him back on track quickly .

In our large comprehensive I think thy would have settled for OK when in fact with a bit more encouragement he was capable of a lot more . He was also a complex character ( would rather deliberately fail than work hard and do not do good as others ) and he was well supported.

Ds3 on the other hand , bright, conformist and conscientious I wonder if we are wasting our money .

I think DS3 will actually gain most because he will always be happy. Children who struggle and they lie to their parents are not, generally, happy. The schools have to push them and they can be hard work to manage in school and out. My DD went from state to boarding but she was motivated, engaged and bright. She did not struggle in anything despite having done little besides working for SATs in year 6. She was the only one who had not done French but loved it and is now doing it for part of her degree. She was motived to learn and determined to do her best.

I think,OP , I would get his homework schedule and check it is done. You definitely need to see the school to talk about his progress and why he has been untruthful. I think his personality may be more of a problem than his state school background. The motived learn very quickly how to work and no-one is writing enormous essays in year 7 anyway. Nor is there much research being done. My DD had better learning skills the most of the prep school pupils and this what your DS needs to gain and also maturity.

He will learn all the critical thinking skills etc in History so don't worry about him dropping Ethics. I think he sounds like a lad who worked his butt off earlier and is now relaxing a little (perhaps a little too much) whilst he focuses on his social needs. It is nearly the holidays and he is also likely pretty tired.

You need to meet with whomever is in charge of academic monitoring. They will put his Y7 achievement into perspective and compare it with his MidYIS predictions.

You also need to understand how they dole out effort and achievement grades. For example, is achievement based on the whole cohort or based on his personal potential?

How are the other parts of his school life? Is he happy and flourishing extra-curricularly?

Is this the first time you have heard of his disappointing achievement?

You say that he is struggling with English and this may be the root of yor DS' difficulties as the humanities so heavily rely on a good grasp of the language to be able to express, analyse and disect information. I can remember from my own moving here to go to university how frustrating history and sociology could be - mathematical subjects on the other hand, were no problem.

We were in a similar situation to you, moved from Scandinavia to England when DS was in year three. Our efforts have been heavily focussed on English in order to get DS up to speed not only in English but all other subjects. As another poster says, perhaps he is 'giving up' as he is frustrated? Have you discussed his challenges with school? Made a plan of action? Wishing you all the best of luck and try not to despair! Your DS sounds like a bright chap and I am sure you will crack it!

I am really blaming myself.

I should have cottoned on to them not having books to read and learn from. All his revisions are from his notes, and all his notes based on following the lessons, and homework based on memory and notes he should take down in class.

I have ordered lots of KS3 revision guides, which I am sure he will find useful through to end of Y9. They seem really good. I have read the reviews, looked inside, and they seem to tally with the topics list he wrote out for me.

He revised history and biology over the weekend. He has now gone on his school trip and he took some books with him, as he and his room mate plan to revise together - his friends mum is an English and maths teacher.

On the one hand I have wanted him to focus on the social aspects because he struggled so in Y5 and Y6 here. On the other, I dont want him to have such low marks. I did not realize what the percentages translated to. Again my fault.

Lessons to learn for Y8. Be on the ball with materials for him.

On the third hand, I have been too busy with my own exams since Easter to notice what goes on around me. (MBA)

I take on board what you say about language skills and maths. He has been doing well in maths all along. He was doing well in geography when they were doing maps and calculations. He was doing well in science when they were doing physics. With biology it has all gone to pots, and he says the teacher is really bad. I know, most children would blame the teacher if they dont learn, so I dont really listen to that. He says he hates his maths teacher! He also says he does not get on with his French teacher, yet he has gone from bottom to mid range this year, which is an improvement.

I spoke to him about the subjects to drop, and he said it was a question of geography and ethics. I suggested dropping geography, and he said he would rather drop ethics because he really likes the geography teacher and find geography more interesting than ethics.
At the end of the day it is his choice.

He has also chosen to proceed with German and Spanish, which are new languages, and drop Latin and Mandarin. His language tutors agree. He thinks German will be "easy" because he speaks Norwegian, but I have explained to him that German grammar is much more difficult and with cases, so I am not sure German is a good choice if he wants it to be easy!

We have one week after half term. It will be a busy one.

Please don't beat yourself up! I am sure you have had plenty to deal with getting organised and settling in a new country! I know I had a lot to learn about how everything worked at a prep school, what was expected, how to be of any help at all etc. etc. etc.

There is no major crisis - as he still has time to get to grips with things and get on top of his various subjects before his year 8 exams (I am assuming he is not sitting CE? moving on for Y9?)! It sounds to me like you are getting him lots of good resources and that he is actually liking what you have supplied him with. It seems to me he is not lazy at all (I know my DS would never pick up anything but Harry Potter or the like when away on a school trip!).

As I said previously - it is very often that children who can't cope/ are falling behind/ does not understand either pretend they can't be bothered or becomes disruptive. It is some sort of defence mechanism so that they won't be 'found out' and seem 'stupid'. Your DS is far from stupid - he has managed a move of country, school system and a new language! Brilliant!

WRT languages - I agree with you - not that much similarity between German and Norwegian grammar... German (and latin for that matter) are good subject apparently for mathematical minds though. Latin and Spanish (and French) are closely linked and thus might be beneficial to study together?! The benefit your DS has is that he has already learned how to learn a language properly, thus he will (so says the theory) find it easier to learn new ones!

FWIW- my DS is also not seen as a non-native English speaker at his school - even though he does not have English parents or English as his first language - I am rather pleased about this though, as I would rather know exactly where he is at and I know he won't be getting special treatment later in life, so he is better off learning to cope now (don't mean to sound harsh, but I think it will help in the long run...IYSWIM).

Good luck with revision next week!

I'm not sure whether you will think my answer useful but I can well empathise with your predicament with your DS - we have a similar situation with DC1 who at one of the super-selectives nr London.

He is quite lazy and because he passed all three 11+ exams he took, he became rather complacent... He got on average 60% in his exams last year and slightly better Yr 8 (although not significantly and still slightly below average for his school cohort). It's frustrating but in a way I think we do have to leave them to find their own way....

We've been rather disappointed with DS's results but have to keep reminding ourselves that 60% in a super-selective is in no way a bad result (and much better than most of the results that his parents got at the same age/stage in grammar schools and we've done okay!). The results are so skewed in those schools and it's easy for all of us to forget that.

I am not suggesting that your DS doesn't need to do more work - far from it - but as with our DS, to some extent they have to find their own way and the penny needs to drop that effort and hard work pay off in the end. DS did much better in Spanish and Geography this year and we are trying to get him to focus on what he is better at (than some of his peers).

Sometimes, in these highly academic environments, their egos can be dented supremely and they need more help with adjusting to issues around managing expectations etc....which in turn may help them work harder!

It's tough though!

He's finding his feet and testing your boundaries to see how little he can get away with.

I suggest you do three things together:
I agree with another poster: speak to whoever manages his academic progress (a personal tutor perhaps?) and see what can be done about opening an informal dialogue about his progress and effort on a regular basis. Secondly, tell your son about it and make him believe that you and his tutor talk regularly even if this is not the case. Thirdly, strongly suggest you have a ring-fenced homework time every night (7pm - 9pm?), whether he claims he has no homework or not. He needs to get in the habit of working every school night as soon as possible. If he has no homework, he should read, do revision exercises, whatever, but be at his desk for the duration.

Additionally:

• consider controlling his web access during homework time to stop him avoiding the homework task in favour of social media etc.
• ask him to shop with you for a new desk lamp, really help him invest in his work space.

All good suggestions and ideas, and I will read replies in more detail later.

Just one question, when does your Y7s go to bed?

11-12 year olds need around 9-9 1/2 hours sleep a night, so it is not really what time he goes to bed at but what time he is getting up at, and count backwards if YSWIM.

Also don't do digital devices/gaming/computers for about an hour before bed as it is a stimulant on the brain and makes it harder to sleep and sleep well.

When she was yr 7, she went to bed 9.15/9.30 but was doing prep 6.30 - 8.30pm.

A two hour slot for homework seems excessive for year 7/8 even if at a very academic school. I would advocate not more than 1 to perhaps 11/2 hours.

My sons at a very academic school in Y7 were set 2 subjects (approx 1 hr to 1hr 10) homework 3 nights a week and 3 subjects 2 nights a week, though one of these was Friday so for the whole weekend. In practice some teachers rarely set homework so there was actually often less than this.

Sounds like he thinks he can coast but can't. What were his grades like in Norway?

If he has been used to coasting it will take time for him to realise he can't any more and also that history and geography require different skills to maths and science.

I think also that children see some subjects as more valuable so 'hey I'm clever because I'm good at maths' also means 'I don't need to bother with humanities because I'm going to be a scientist'.

Basically it is your money paying for his education. Did you give him a choice? Does he appreciate it?

Not the same but similar a friend's daughter had dance lessons for a few years and then wanted to compete. Basically her mother said she could but she had to do her best to win. Mum and dad drive her round the country for competitions and pay for some extra lessons but if dd doesn't do her best in the lessons or competition they they will stop.

So does your son like his school? Are you wasting your money if he is not doing his best in all subjects?

If you are going to coast then Y7 is probably the best year to do it in.

I dont believe he thinks he can coast. I have already explained that he came from a Y3 in Norway to Y5 in Britain and was working really hard in Y5 and Y6. I dont think whatever grades he had in Norway matters that much, it is a long time ago now and in Junior school. I have also already said that he is happy, and that the school was his choice. I understand it is difficult to keep an overview of all I have said, I am rambling rather a lot.

If anyone is "coasting" it is me, thinking all would be well as soon as he was in this school and he would just magically learn "unsupported."

I also dont think you can really compare paying for an extracurricular activity with education. There will be no detrimental effect to your friends dds education if they stop paying for ballet.

There will be monumental upheaval for my son if I take him out of a school he loves and enjoys, when he finally has found friends. I have to find another way of making him learn and fully benefit from what the school has on offer. This thread is helping me do this. I had not realized there was such a thing as "book free" learning until I started this thread and started pondering these issues.

OP - I don't think that you are 'coasting', I think you are just discovering what is required for you to help your son make the most of his schooling.

Private education in the UK and state education is Scandinavia is vastly different - so it is no wonder it is taking a while for you to get your head around it. You are doing your best and finding out more all the time - which is all that anyone can really ask and I am very sure that with your awareness and help your DS will have all the help he needs to 'pull his socks up' and make the very best of the opportunities you are giving him!

Thanks Tinkerbell, I was so certain they had books I did not even think to ask. They have books for Latin and French, it did not click that I had not seen any books for any other subject.

Seems rather mean & short-sighted to move him from a school he loves to another just because you don't like his current grades. Are high grades your only ambition in his education?