Appeal hearing - panel did not ask me any questions

[butterfly8888]

Hi there,
First time posting here.
I had my appeal hearing yesterday. I was very prepared, did tons of research. Appealed on medical grounds to a faith secondary school. I felt it was a very strong case and in addition I tried to weaken the school's statement that admitting additional children would cause prejudice.
However, the hearing didn't go as I expected. I expected the panel to ask many questions. I planned to read up my presentation, but they said they'd read it and they didn't need to hear it. No questions were asked at all. It all felt rushed and seemed like they were trying to brush me off and they'd already decided it was a no and didn't want to waste time on it.
Surely if they felt it was a strong case they would've asked some questions?
I am really upset about this.
Any advice from anyone?

If you were simply going to read your written case I'm not surprised the panel didn't want to hear it. They will have read your case so hearing you read it out loud would not have added anything. I would always recommend giving a summary of your case in the hearing highlighting the important points rather than reading your written case. I am, however, surprised they didn't ask questions. They should test the strength of your case. The lack of questions could call their independence into question.

Or alternatively if they thought it was a strong case maybe they didn't have to ask questions?

Thank you for the feedback. Well, every point of my case had supporting evidence from doctor, hospital consultant, bus maps, etc.
But I still expected them to have some questions. It just felt like they were brushing me off. I was the last case of probably many as it is an extremely popular school. Last year they had 32 appeals, 1 successful.
I also question their independence especially that I was not informed who the panel members were before the hearing. They were briefly introduced at the beginning of the hearing.
The weakest part of my case was that my child is not a church goer, which is why she wasn't admitted in the first place. I wasn't sure how much that would be taken into account given that every other aspect of my case was very strong.

Just to say we were at our appeal for primary school place today too. Not too hopeful, school is full and no special needs, just a sibling there. On a positive note we found out that dd I is at the top of the waiting list, so hopefully there'll be some movement when all appeals are heard and she might still get a place. Fingers crossed.

You can complain to the local govt ombudsman but all they can do is order a new appeal with another panel if they agree with you. I am surprised you weren't given the names in advance, they normally go out with the letter from the clerk informing you of the time and date.

Sounds like the panel wanted to go home. Very rude, as a panellist I would never treat someone like that.

Unfortunately even with hospital letters etc there may not have been strong enough grounds to allow the appeal.

Thank you for your reply HPparent. So do you think lack of questions means they didn't consider my case strong enough? My child has a rare genetic disorder with a number of symptoms and it also affects her appearance. Appeal school is our nearest, easy walking distance and very close to gp, allocated school very far with no direct public transport. I don't see how this wouldn't be a strong case. Compared to the cases I've read on these forums I believe it is a strong one.
I wouldn't say the panel was rude, but I did feel rushed. This whole school admission and appeal has taken over my life, I spent so much time writing our case, read 3 different books and I was so nervous before the appeal I just felt really disappointed how they asked nothing.

If the Ombudsman ordered a new hearing, would all the cases needed to be heard again by the new panel or just mine?

If the LGO (or the EFA if this is an academy) orders a new hearing only your case would be heard again.

"My child has a rare genetic disorder with a number of symptoms and it also affects her appearance. Appeal school is our nearest, easy walking distance and very close to gp, allocated school very far with no direct public transport. I don't see how this wouldn't be a strong case."

It may be or may not. Her appearance is unlikely to be a factor, I would have thought. Appeal school being your nearest is only relevant if you had a medical letter saying your dd must attend her nearest school on medical grounds. Being very close to GP is only relevant if your dd needs to be able to visit the GP at short notice and has a medical letter stating this. Direct public transport is only a factor if it is essential that she doesn't walk far or some other medical factor which you have a letter for.

lougle is right. Unless you can show why that school is the only one that can meet your child's genuine and professionally backed up needs, you are unlikely to win your case.

Sadly there are quite a few appellants with medical grounds but very few of them succeed in making that connection.

The school being near the parents workplace, GP or hospital is often given as grounds for appeal but this is normally irrelevant.

Children are also expected to be able to travel. Having to get more than one bus or tube is pretty common.

I had all those letters from GP and consultant saying it was essential based on her medical condition that she attended this school and in a nutshell it would put her in danger on a daily basis if she had to travel an hour each way on public transport. Both doctors' letters were very detailed but I won't go into too much details here. Appearance is relevant as pastoral care is excellent at appeal school. I will be very upset if we don't win. It wouldn't be fair. I've been reading a lot about this and have come across many cases that were won on much weaker grounds. Parents making up all sorts of things, whereas my daughter has a genuine medical and psychological need for this school and I did absolutely everything to prove it to them. I am just exhausted.

The weakest part of my case was that my child is not a church goer - I am not an expert but if it is a seriously over subscribed Faith school I would have assumed that is a pretty important issue?

I am sorry for your situation and hope it can be resolved.

If that's the case then you may well be worrying over nothing. Panels only ask questions if questions need to be asked. If everything is clear and evidenced, what's the point in asking more questions? The only thing that would concern me is if you weren't allowed to say anything in addition to your submission (although the panel was entirely right to say 'don't read it to us, we've already read it' because not only will they have received it ahead of the hearing but they will have reviewed it as a panel before you went in).

They could well have looked through the submission, said 'well this is a straightforward one., but we'll still have to hear the case, let's get her in.'

You really can't read a panel. Sometimes the most time is given to people with the weakest car so that they don't feel they were rushed and disregarded when their case is later rejected.

My fingers are crossed for you OP.

I can completely see why a fragile child needs to go to the nearest school, and it's frustrating that your nearest state funded school excludes on grounds of faith . Did you cite medical need when you applied? Do they have medical need as a criteria?

Good luck.

I hope it works out for your DD. How long do you have to wait until you hear the result?

Does the school have a medical and social needs (or exceptional circumstances) criteria for admissions OP? If not your case would be much weaker as although the panel may be sympathetic they cannot allocate places on this category.
Many schools (of all types) do not have this admissions category and it is very unfortunate for children who would have a genuine case if this were present.

If not your case would be much weaker as although the panel may be sympathetic they cannot allocate places on this category

I'm sorry but this is rubbish. The appeal panel does not have to follow the admission criteria.

Appeals for secondary schools fix administrative errors but they also deal with cases that don't fit the admission criteria. An appeal where there are strong medical reasons why the child needs to attend this school is very strong regardless of whether or not the school has a medical needs admission category. The appeal panel is not "allocating places on this category". It is deciding whether the prejudice (i.e. disadvantage) to the child of not being admitted outweighs the prejudice to the school of having to cope with an additional pupil. The admission criteria don't enter into it at all.

Crazymum : most of the reasons parents cite in appeals are not factors that form part of the Admissions criteria! Social reasons to do with bullying, stamp collecting clubs, dance opportunities etc etc. many appeals succeed on these grounds. Where did you get that piece of misinformation?

Prh47 and other knowledgable types: if medical need is a priority admissions criteria (as it would be in most community schools, I think) would that give the OP an extra strength because she could claim that the admissions criteria has not been correctly applied in that her dd's needs had not been properly treated within the admissions process?

Thank you for everyone who is joining this topic, some really useful advice, I wish I started this thread before the hearing. :-)
Yes, I did submit the medical letters at the time of applying. Social/medical reasons were part of the admissions criteria, but below the Catholic church goer criterion. So basically, at the time of admissions, they only prioritised her within the non church goer category; and they filled all their places with weekly churchgoers. Next category is fortnightly church goers, so she is way down on the waiting list.

It is very unfair, especially that I personally know a number of families who are not Catholic, but went to church for a year and as soon as they got the offer letter they stopped going to church and will never go again.

The doctors' letters were done for the admissions and not for the appeal and I used the same letters for the appeals as they were already very detailed. I did add a lot of other information and I also got a letter from the organisation for this genetic disorder. Because at the time of admissions we did not know which school she'd be allocated, the doctors' letters do not compare the appeal school with the allocated school. However they do go into a lot of detail about why it was essential that she attended this particular school, being the nearest to her home, pastoral care, and what difficulties it would cause if she had to attend any other school. I then prepared a case that also compares the appeal school with the allocated school.

I don't know what more I could've done. Although I knew that the panel does not have to follow the admissions criteria, I wasn't sure how much the church going would affect the appeal. By the way, we had a letter from a priest to confirm that the family is Catholic, but this has hardly any weight unless you got the stamp every week from the church.

I've heard that for Catholic schools the panel members are part of the church so their impartiality is highly questionable.

The admissions criteria are irrelevant once you are at appeal stage (other than to identify if a child has been misplaced within the criteria). Church going or not, you have medical letters saying that your child must attend this school and to do otherwise would endanger her health. That's pretty much as good as an appeal argument gets.

Panels are not medical experts, normally, and even if they were all doctors, they are not there in a medical capacity. That means that they have to take the word of the Doctor who wrote the letter. If the letter says she must attend that school, they have to take that at face value.

Equally, if the letter says 'the parents tell me that in their opinion DD must go to this school because they feel she needs to be close to a GP and they don't feel that she can walk very far' then the panel will take that at face value and most probably conclude that a parent's opinion isn't a statement of fact.

Thank you so much lougle, that really has given me hope.
In my letter it did mention that she is now going to church. The only thing one panel member asked was if there was any proof of that, I said no, and the panel member said that would've added weight to my case. Which indicates the faith aspect was taken into account. I was thinking at the time, does it not have enough weight already? I should've said it, but I did not.

I've heard that for Catholic schools the panel members are part of the church so their impartiality is highly questionable

The panel must be impartial. They cannot be associated with the school in any way. The Appeals Code specifically says that the panel cannot include anyone who has at any time had a connection with the admission authority or school that might raise doubts about their ability to act independently.

Dear prh47bridge, that's all very well, but how do you check that?