should i mention "emotional issues " at ds secondary appeal hearing? need help please

[appealtakingovermylife]

Hi! I'm new to mn as you can probably gather and have been hooked on the appeal threads for weeks since receiving secondary allocation.
I've submitted my appeal and finally recd date for hearing in 3 weeks.
I've kept it quite factual,appealing on medical/social grounds and have supporting doc evidence, son has aspergers and anxiety.
However, there are factors that I consider relevant such as me losing a baby, two grandparents dying, his grandad dying, his dad moving 7 times in 7 years and on 3rd engagement ( we split up when he was 2) very bad relationship with his dad, gets so upset seeing him once a week, all made his anxiety really bad. Is it worth mentioning these types of things? My dad said no but other people said yes.
Sorry for such a long post, this appeal has made me quite ill, mentally, doctor prescribed tablets for anxiety, it took a lot for me to go docs, I'm normally a good coper.
Thanks in advance to anybody who can help me.

Okay on all those things the important point is: how do they relate to why you want school A?

Thanks for your reply:)
None of these things directly relate to the need for this school but imo they indirectly relate to his anxiety.
The reasons for appeal are for continuity stability and consistency in having a mixed sex Catholic education with exceptional pastoral care and Sen dept, no other school in this city offers all that and my ds has terrible anxiety relating to change and the allocated school is 2 buses each way there and back on his own every day ( I don't drive ) and have a toddler at pre school, feel like I'm going crazy lol

Do you have letters to support his need for continuity and stability and his issues with anxiety, saying this school is best?

Yes I have two, from the principal ed psych and the asc specialist doctor at Alder hey children's hospital who also saw my ds last wed and couldn't believe the change in him, said he was quite and withdrawn, he normally interrupts us, chats about his current obsession etc but no he was going in and on about how he doesn't want to go to school a and the travelling thing is making him really anxious etc and she took me aside and said she is going to write another letter of support now she has seen the way he is over it.
We hadn't seen her for 12 months, appointment kept getting cancelled their end:( as much as I hate seeing my son so upset, I'm glad the doctor saw him and she was really concerned.

Provided the letters you have from the experts are good and back this up (I presume you're entitled to know what they've put in them?), I would veer towards your dad's opinion - keeping it simple and arguing that regardless of how stressful his life is otherwise, he wouldn't be able to cope with the school allocated (ie it never was and never will be an appropriate place to educate your ds). But I have never had to do a school appeal, so this is nothing more than an uneducated feeling. Hopefully you will get advice from others who do have experience.

The letters you need to submit should say that the consultant has seen X and that in their opinion this particular school is needed because.......
The panel will need firm evidence that there is an issue because there far too many appeals that talk about anxiety and bullying etc as a reason when they have not real evidence.

Thank you both for taking the time to reply, rabbitstew I'm veering towards mentioning something about the emotional stuff without it sounding like a sob story iyswim, the letters were sent to me first and I've included them in my appeals submission that I've sent off, imo, the ed psych letter was more thorough but like I said before were getting another one from the asc doctor some time this week.
Admission I recognise your name from previous appeal threads, you've obviously got a lot of experience, the letters from the ed psych, asc doctor and the school senco all mention my ds anxiety which relates mainly to change but can totally see what you mean.we're waiting for a camhs refererral again and he's had a few panic attacks which were frightening.
5/51 appeals were won last year at this school and all 5 were on medical/social grounds.
Son has a general diagnosis of asc but is typical aspergers, our local authority stopped diagnosis as but said that's what he has and there's a history of it on exp' s side, I think his dad has it too. Any more advice would be gratefully received, this appeal has taken its toll on me.

ds1 and ds2 both have AS and anxiety related issues. They are statemented as anxiety manifested itself in challenging behaviour and school refusal. But even without statementing there is support that some schools give and not others which could add to your appeal e.g. pragmatics / social skills group, support at unstructured times breaks and lunchtimes etc, a "safe place" that your son is allowed to go to when feeling stressed, staff with experience of working with children with AS, permits to go out of lesson early to avoid the sensory overload in the corridor at lesson changeover. What support has he had in primary and would the secondary be able to continue this?

Hi oneineight, believe it or not my ds was the first child at his primary school to be diagnosed asc, 3 others have followed but imo he has been a bit of a guinea pig, he sees the learning mentor a lot for pastoral support and has a brilliant relationship with his senco so they have always been there as a one to one support and he did his sats last week away from the main hall due to anxiety and because he said he couldn't concentrate properly when doing practice sats. Sometimes I feel like he hasn't had much support but I'm still learning everyday too what's right and what works etc
Major issue with allocated school is the travelling alone 2 buses each way on his own every day, his social skills are limited,scared of busy places/unfamiliar area/roads , appeal school is highly commended for high pastoral care which I know he needs.

Any advice from panel members would be very welcome please.
20 days and counting...

If you have good medical evidence that should form the basis of your appeal. It is up to you whether you mention the various issues you mention (miscarriage, family deaths, etc.) but I wouldn't spend too long on them. The panel may sympathise but these things don't give a reason to admit. They are only really relevant to the extent that they have affected his anxiety.

Prh thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my question.
I agree entirely that they are not reasons for admission but have contributed to ds anxiety.
My appeal is very precise, to the point and concentrates on why it's the "most suitable school" and refers to both letters from asc doctor and ed psych and makes subtle comparisons to the allocated school rather than rubbishing it.
I have a question if I may? Do panels take travelling concerns seriously if the child has asc/anxiety and lacks social skills/ major road sense ie crossing the busiest road in this city at 4 separate junctions from one bus from our house, then getting another bus ( multiple buses to multiple areas at this stop so hoping he would get the right one!) Then getting off and crossing 2 further roads, the second of which is the slip road to a major motorway so my nerves are gone:( he isn't capable if this imo.
Thanks so much

Sorry prh, just to clarify further, in your opinion it wouldn't be necessary to send further details of the emotional issues, if I was to mention them briefly it would be best done at the appeal? If at all.
Hope that makes sense:)
Thanks

Do panels take travelling concerns seriously

In general such issues are not taken into account. But if you can show there are serious safety concerns I would expect the panel to give that some weight provide the evidence is adequate.

in your opinion it wouldn't be necessary to send further details of the emotional issues

It isn't necessary to send in details. This is something you can bring up in the hearing. If you have not yet submitted a full written case I might say something like, "His anxiety problems have been made worse by recent family issues" and leave it at that. You can then expand on this in the hearing. But if you have already submitted your written case I wouldn't bother amending it just to get this in. You can still bring it up in the hearing. The only thing you mustn't do is take documentary evidence to the hearing that you haven't submitted in advance.

I think you must not lose sight of the educational reasons and pastoral reasons why you want this school. It is important to know why your preferred school suits your son's needs and not spend all your time stating what his needs are and over stating your problems because quite a few children may have had similar or worse.

Thank you both for replying, prh i have already submitted the appeal so im just going to say a few things on the day and keep focused on what matters, my ds needs.
MillyMollyMama yes i agree with what you're saying,its sticking with the reasons why this school is the most suitable without being side-tracked and as you say, other children may have been through similar or worse.
I need to concentrate on what matters, its so hard because emotion gets in the way and im obviously very emotionally charged at the moment:(

Hi I've received the letter from the asc doctor who saw my ds for a review and she has adressed it to our gp as opposed to " to whom it may concern" in the initial support letter.
Would the panel accept this? I've left a message with her Secretary. The letter itself is quite detailed regarding my ds concerns over the allocated school and his anxiety but none of it seems concrete enough and is more " mother mentions this, mother states that.... "
Thanks in advance for any help.

The panel will look at any evidence you submit. But I'm afraid if it is as you describe they probably won't give it much weight. It sounds like the doctor is simply reflecting your views rather than stating a professional opinion.

Thanks prh, that's what I thought too. I'm going to see if she can help me any further as she told me she would but hopefully the other evidence I've provided is enough.
Are panels ever given a maximum amount of appeals they can admit to a school? Do you have any experience of appeals being won on medical/social grounds for children with asc/anxiety?
Sorry for all of the questions, there are no good alternatives to fall back on and I'm getting worried now. Thanks again.

No, panels are not told how many appeals they can admit. That is entirely their decision.

Appeals can be won for children with anxiety if there is enough medical evidence to say they really need the appeal school. But I would say that it is a long shot.

Thanks again prh, I just want it all over with now!
It's good to know there are people like you out there who have experienced both sides of appeals. I am up against 70 odd other parents so have got to realise the odds aren't great but I have faith in my submission letter and original reasons ( I stupidly didn't provide professional documentary evidence in original application ) hope they don't hold that against us, tho I did mention ds condition and enclosed diagnosis letter.
Given the number of appellants and school being over pan, is it best to focus on balancing stage rather than trying to counter the schools prejudice argument?
Sorry for all the questions:) thanks you've been very helpful.

You should do what you can to counter the school's argument but there is no way the panel is going to admit 70 pupils. I therefore agree that your prime focus needs to be on making your case as strong as possible so that you can win at the balancing stage. If the panel ends up with more successful appeals than they think the school can handle they will have to figure out which appeals are strongest. So the stronger you can make your case the better.

Thanks prh,you've been really helpful.
I may call on you again if that's ok before the dreaded 12th June:)
Hopefully there will be some positive stories around mn over the next few weeks!

Hi all, waiting on letter now, it will be sent 1st class this Wednesday.
I'm concerned that imo the appeal seemed to go " too well " in that the panel were very complimentary regarding my appeal statement/documentary evidence etc and made all the right noises and then said I'd "done my son proud " at the end.
Deputy head asked me nothing, I asked her 3 questions that challenged the schools prejudice claims and she didn't look happy.
I really don't want to set myself up for a fall but it's very hard to think negatively when I walked out of the room feeling on a high that it went so well.
I'm preparing ds for a no as he is so against the allocated school but it is a real possibility that's where he will be going.
Does anyone believe in "gut instincts "? And I would love to hear from panel members, do you tend to make up your mind there and then or even on the strength of the written case or was the panel maybe just putting me at my ease by being so nice?
The chair said that his now adult dc has the same medical condition as my ds and seemed quite emotional and empathetic.
My head is full of thoughts, sorry it's long!
Any opinions welcome, thanks:)

60 appeals were heard in the end. Last year the same panel admitted 5.