Help! Fast Track French GCSE at 13 and stressing

[MzMonkey]

Hi all

DD is just 13 and about to sit a French GCSE on a fast track programme. We are not sure where she is at progress-wise as we have been away for 6 months. All seems a bit tricky and scary at the moment.

She's very capable overall, and has been keeping up, but what a stretch! Don't want her first GCSE to be a big stress or end up in a low mark or, even worse, fail. She's at a vulnerable age / stage and a lot else going on.

We have a tutor helping and DH did a French A-Level equiv. many moons ago.

Questions then

1. If she gets a low grade or fail, how will this look later on?

1. Could we just drop it? All seems a bit stressy at her age. Lots of other stuff going on. How many do they need?

1. Can all this cramming just kill her love of languages? Want a life long language lover not a hot house swot here...

Confused! Will know more when we speak to the teacher, but as she has not been tested for awhile, they don't really know where she is at. Trying to get Tutor and DH to communicate with teacher before it's all too late. They sit written just after half term.

Sorry for length. Yep, I'm a newbie.

Many many thanks in advance....

If she gets a low grade or fails, this will look very bad on her record. if she gets a high grade at this age, it will be of no benefit to her what so ever, as it will be disregarded in applications to uni or sixth form. unless she is planning to move straight on to A level French in KS4?

It counts as a GCSE on her record, added to the others. This gives her more options when she chooses her GCSE's in Year 9.

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=370492

That link is for an article which says:

"Two years ago, High School, a 1,450 pupil comprehensive in Brighton, tried a bold experiment putting Year 8 students on a fast-track GCSE course.
The results exceeded all expectations. After five and a half terms, all but one of the 56 in the group gained a A-C.

These are the figures: A* 13, A 25, B15, C2."

It doesn't count in her GCSE score, because it is too early. if she is not a linguist, and never wants to touch languages again, it is a good way of getting a language GCSE under her belt, because she will still have a language GCSE if she is asked, but it won't count in her over all score.

Yes, MzMonkey, if you start taking GCSEs in year 8, and take them a couple at a time, you get very high marks, that is why GCSEs taken like this are disregarded, and your GCSE scores are based on GCSEs taken together in year 11.

At dd's school only those who are fluent speakers in a particular non English language are entered for GCSE early to give them the best chance. Eldest dd took French in year 7 and got an A* which wasn't difficult or surprising as we are a family of fluent french speakers.

Aren't you a bit late anyway? The GCSE French Listening and Reading paper was on Monday and controlled assessment deadline was today.
Unless you mean she's just about to start the course?

as it will be disregarded in applications to uni or sixth form

No it won't.

A tiny minority of universities prefer it when students to sit exams at the same time. This is not the same thing as saying they will ignore them.

Providing applicants have taken a bunch of exams at the same time in year 11, it really doesn't matter if they took some earlier or not.

Well, I do enrolments for our 6th form. If an applicant wants to do A levels, we firstly calculate their overall GCSE score, using GCSEs taken in the last year of school, ( end of year 10 to end of year 11), and disregarding anything else.

If they have a high enough GCSE score to be accepted onto the A level programme, we then look at individual subjects. To take an A level in a subject, the student needs to have studied it at GCSE or post GCSE level in year 11, (This also goes for related needed subjects) For example you need English to study Law, but if you finished English in year 10, and didn't do a further qualification in year 11, you will be rejected. Similarly with maths and physics.

This is standard practice, how strictly a school adheres to this depends on how over subscribed it is. Obviously, schools with fewer applicants will have lower entry requirements.

it doesn't mean you will be rejected from the school, just from the A level programme. You could still get into BTec. I have explained this on many other threads in the last few days!

are you saying your dd is sitting her gcse french now and you realised she may have gaps?

You could test her yourself. Just download a past paper and answer scheme from the exam board. You may not be able to assess the level of the essay, but for reading comprehension and listening comprehension you should be able to get a reasonable idea of her level and from there whether it is worth sitting the exam.
I do think there is value in taking an exam early if you are then moving on to A level. Ds took German when he was 11 and is now preparing for the A level. It is not a subject he wants to study at university, but I do think being able to speak another language is useful and there are wider benefits reagrdless of whether it is ignored by university admissions officers.

This is standard practice, how strictly a school adheres to this depends on how over subscribed it is

Not at any of the secondary schools or colleges where I live it isn't. Nor have I heard this mentioned by any of the sixth form tutors that have attended any of our admissions events at my university, and I must meet representatives from 100+ schools and colleges per year.

Well the formulas used are national standard. They are issued to us, nationally, we don't invent them. We are advised to follow guidelines, for entry requirements, although this is up to us. The guidelines are based on GCSE scores calculated identically across the whole country, though.

Well the formulas used are national standard

Yes, but they are used for league table purposes. They are not generally used for entry into other educational establishments.

My dd is taking a language GCSE this Monday, she's in year 8. She is bilingual. The school has said that this GCSE will count for entry to 6th form one day.

Unless she is a dead cert for an A* in the subject, then what on earth is the point of taking it now rather than having 2 more years practice and 2 more years maturity?

So sorry just realised she is in y8 , so taking it 3 yrs early!!! Unless she is a native French speaker or you or her dad is, then this is lunacy!

I'm very concerned about some of the ideas and attitudes on here. I don't think people realise the consequences of this sort of thing at all. It can cause a lot of problems.

To the op, you are in a difficult situation, because the exam is of no benefit to your child at all, but pulling out or failing now is going to create a certain mindset about her future options with GCSEs, not deliberately, but naturally,when under serious pressure, she is going to be aware that there is a magic button to cause instant release from exam stress and pressure. it is called withdraw.

To people talking about students taking GCSE exams in their home languages. You seem to think it is harmless, and maybe helpful.

Really Really really don't.

I just can't stress this enough.

Firstly, these early exams and of no benefit to entry, as I have explained, they can be disadvantageous, especially if the cause a hiatus in the student's progress through the subject.

Now I am going to explain why taking a GCSE in your home language is not a good idea, it may not make sense, but this is GOVE for you; please try and follow this and understand.

This is how it works.

Entry requirements aside, your average GCSE results are used to predict your grades at A level/Btec. Entry requirements and predicted grades are calculated separately, by different formula.

GCSEs in language are not intended for people for whom it is a home language. Therefore, people who take a home language GCSE will get a high grade. In fact, should get an A*. If this is taken early enough, it is likely to be disregarded and useless anyway. However, if it is used to calculate their average GCSE score, their score is skewed. This helps the school league table, but from there on up, it is a problem.

*If a student is predicted future grades based on a home language GCSE then their target grades are too high.

if a teacher accepts a student who's target grades are above their potential, then the TEACHER'S statistics, and life chances, are damaged when that student completes the course.*

Under GOVES wonderland over the rainbow with the fairies scheme, that teacher stands to lose money, and job security.

As a clear example, I had a student doing level 3 btec last year. He had done level 2 btec, and scored quite low, but was able to complete and benefit from level 3, and passed very well in the end.

However that student had at 16, been considered by his school not too be capable of attempting ANY GCSEs, not up to having a go at maths, science, English, geography, art, ANYTHING at all. To protect the schools statistics he was shoved through a home language GCSE, and came out with an A*.

As this was his only GCSE, it was also his average, and his OFSTED predicted grades were then the same as someone who had 10 A*s, and I was penalised because he didn't make his predicted grade.

Now, I'm coming to the end of my career, and I don't give a stuff, but other teacher's who had contact with him wanted him rejected, ( quite rightly, if you are just starting out this could scupper you) and he was only allowed to stay because I agreed to put him on my statistics. Otherwise he would not have got a place in the school.

This is the most extreme example, but out of last year's tutorgroup of 20, more than three quarters had home language GCSEs messing up their predictions, as well as other problems, autism, cancer, a history of holidays in term time, young carers, etc

GOVE'S policy is to blame and punish teachers for all this. A young teacher starting out, new mortgage, new family, maybe is likely to feel every sympathy in the world for the children, but cannot put their own family on the line by accepting large numbers of applicants with home language GCSEs, and students will be rejected for this.

(Of course, once you have them in the classroom, other aspects of the madness of King GOVE are going to interfere with your day to day lessons to such an extent that you are going to be unable to teach properly anyway, but that is a whole different thread.)

My statistics are crap by the way, and I'm very proud to say so!

That's actually quite frightening AE

Are colleges of FE under the same pressures? Ds2's grammar has very high entry requirements for 6th form anyway so s/o with one GCSE would never get in but I can see it might be an issue for somewhere with a more mixed intake. I'm appalled actually that kids with SN/young carers etc might be unable to stay on at their school because their home circumstances or illnesses cannot be accounted to Gove. How do those vulnerable in education get the best chances if they become too risky for a teacher/school to take on?

Well it's going ahead now but you have me worried! Dd is at a grammar school with high entry requirements for 6th form. Do you think that changes things? It really had never occurred to me that this wouldbe a bad idea!

It's a very frustrating and distressing situation, saintlyjimjams, we are just praying for an end to gove's reign of terror, and for some sense of reason and fairness to return to Ofsted.

Verycold, she is only in year 8, exams taken so early don't normally count towards entry requirements. She will be fine as long as she does well in year 11, and if she is in a grammar school she is likely to. Will she be doing another MFL in KS4?

Yes she will. The headteacher said it would count! It just seemed a logical thing to do, at the end of two years of German lessons she had to be in with the rest of the class. Should we have left it till year 11 then?

verycold, yes, as things stand, leaving it to year 11 would have been more helpful as she is bilingual and would have got an A easily anyway, it would be better to be an A in her year 11 results, especially as it wouldn't draw attention to her being bilingual, and just look like she had studied hard and successfully!

However, if she is staying in the same school, and they know her, they are not going to let their own decisions disadvantage her, are they.

Sorry if I've made you worry, but in her case, as a high acheiving grammar school child, she is likely to score highly enough in her year 11 GCSEs to have all options open to her anyway.