Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Appeals question

30 replies

LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 14/05/2014 11:20

If I deregister my DD from her current primary school, would the panel find out? Not that I would lie about it if asked, of course, just that I'd rather not mention it if it doesn't come up anyway :)

OP posts:
lougle · 14/05/2014 11:26

They may ask you where she currently attends -it's a fairly standard opening question. It wouldn't affect your appeal unless you tried to use her having no school as leverage for winning your appeal, though, in which case the panel would probably think you were bonkers!

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 14/05/2014 11:42

Thanks, Lougle. Though it sort of does have a relevance to our particular case (school refusal etc). Oh well, I will have a think about it.

OP posts:
lougle · 14/05/2014 12:47

I'm thinking to appeal documents I've read (we hand them in after hearings and all but one copy gets destroyed) and I am sure that part of the bundle contains the current school attended.

If you have deregistered her because of school refusal I would absolutely want to know about it. Obviously, the more evidence you have of this school refusal and any steps to overcome it the better. Presumably your case is that it is this school she is refusing rather than 'school' itself? Remember that you are appealing for another school, not against this school.

What year group is your DD?

admission · 14/05/2014 21:42

It could be that this is something that absolutely you need to bring up. If the pupil is a school refuser now in the primary school but has expressed a wish to go to this particular secondary school then with the right evidence to back up the claims you could have a half decent case to take to appeal.

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 09:18

DD is a school refuser at her primary (she's Y6) and she wants to go to this secondary school. Case centres partly on this (but I'm unsure whether her own preference is a strong enough reason by itself). The other part of the case is that she has separation anxiety (all documented and backed up with evidence) and won't cope with being separated from her friends. But my concern is that if I deregister her then a panel would think "but if being with her friends isnt' enough to keep her in primary then why would it be enough to keep her in secondary?" Whereas if I don't de-reg her then I can say that she is still trying to back to school to be with her friends (all of which is true, but HT is putting me under pressure to de-reg and I'm trying to decide whether to or not).

OP posts:
Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 09:19

trying to go back to school

OP posts:
Martorana · 15/05/2014 09:21

Does the Head want you to de reg because of attendance figures?

lougle · 15/05/2014 09:35

Head Teachers aren't allowed to pressure you to deregister, Lucas. Simply not allowed to. You have a right to a state education and poor attendance is not a reason to remove that place.

Does your DD have an underlying cause for the school refusal? Such as an additional need/bullying, etc?

What steps have the school taken to help? Have attendance officers been in contact or education welfare?

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 10:29

We don't know what causes the school refusal - school haven't been much help, really. I spoke to someone at Education Welfare and they said without a CAMHS referral they couldn't help - and CAMHS have refused her.

Maybe 'pressuring' was the wrong word to use. HT says that she can't just be off sick and that she needs a CAMHS referral and without one the LEA say we have to dereg. I'm happy to dereg as she won't be going back to primary - my only concern is how this will affect our appeal.

OP posts:
lougle · 15/05/2014 11:25

Ah I see. It's not as simple as 'must dereg'. Legally either she must be in school, have something being done about the school refusal or HE. She can't just 'not go'. I think he's trying to prevent you getting prosecuted for non attendance.

As far as for the appeal I still think it's all highly relevant.

What would be your plan b if the Aspall fails? Would she go to another school or would you home educate? Be aware that the panel may well ask what your plan b is.

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 11:31

Thanks, Lougle. I agree that it's relevant to the appeal - but I can't see if it's good relevant or bad relevant :)

We have tried not to make a decision about Plan B until we've heard the appeal result. I think I would probably home educate her in the hopes that a place would come up eventually - but that will be even harder to settle her in :(

OP posts:
TantrumsAndBalloons · 15/05/2014 11:37

Do you want to de reg or is it because of the HT?

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 12:07

I'm not bothered either way as it won't affect us - DD won't be going back to primary anyway. I just want to know whether it's likely to be a bad thing for our appeal... I suppose it could go either way though?

OP posts:
TantrumsAndBalloons · 15/05/2014 12:10

I know nothing about appeals tbh but in my very inexpert opinion, I would think if you de reg her then use seperation anxiety as a factor in your appeal then they might question that.

But I don't know. That's just how I feel.

prh47bridge · 15/05/2014 12:47

It is potentially good relevant. If you can show that your daughter is more likely to attend the appeal school than the offered school that could help your appeal. It would certainly help if you can find out why your daughter is refusing to attend primary school. Does she not offer any reasons? Is it possible she is being bullied?

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 13:40

She just says she doesn't like it. She's been to a counsellor who's been unable to get to the root of it. I suspect she is bored.

OP posts:
lougle · 15/05/2014 13:53

I think you need to think really carefully about the situation your DD is in.Your argument could fall down if your only point is 'this is where she wants to go because her friends are there', as her friends are at this school which she won't go to.

You'd be wise to include all relevant information, including the fact that she has seen a counsellor, so that you don't come across as complacent that she won't attend school. Then, if possible, ask her to tell you what she likes about the appeal school. Make sure her feelings are included in your submission.

Martorana · 15/05/2014 14:53

I'm sorry- but without any sort of psychiatric report, the need to be with her friends will carry no weight at all at appeal, it really won't. The panel will rightly point out, apart from anything else, that you tend not to be with your primary friends in secondary school anyway.

lougle · 15/05/2014 15:05

It depends what other evidence there is, martorana. I agree that a parent turning up to appeal saying 'she wants to be with her friends' Would be weak. However, if there was sufficient evidence of real problems and the possibility that this child could return to school if she got a place here... It could fly.

eddiemairswife · 15/05/2014 15:13

You really need a letter from GP or counsellor stating why this is the only suitable school for her. As it stands the fact that she needs the support of her friends won't cut much ice, especially as she is refusing to attend her current school, where I presume the supportive friends are in attendance.

Original poster
LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime · 15/05/2014 15:59

Martorana, it's completely different in my DD's circumstances but I don't really want to go into detail here. We have lots evidence from GP & counsellor backing it up.

Thanks for your help, everyone!

OP posts:
lougle · 15/05/2014 16:05

The trouble is that no one can say what will and won't cut ice in this situation because it will depend on the balance of prejudice.

If the school is full to bursting you'll need compelling evidence that only this school will do and it will harm your dd hugely if she doesn't get it. If the school is full but in reality could take 3 or 4 more pupils in year 7 without any issues then you're more likely to win because the school's case won't be very strong in itself.

I've day on panels where the panel days to the HT 'it must be quite a squeeze in that temporary building?' and the HT replies "ooh no, they're lovely and spacious! !"

cestlavielife · 15/05/2014 16:31

going with friends wont work that well for large secondary eg she might not even be in tutor group with friends.

however if you can show that eg "she will be taking the local bus with the following six children who are her friends and all live on her street" then that might help.

who are her friends eg does she see them outside school? what if one two or three of those change their minds about which school or move away? it could happen.

showing a local connection to the school possibility to share bus journey etc might be in favour but you cant base it on the fact that children a b and c are going to the school and are her friends . as you cant control whether they in fact will or wont attend the school. but you could say well everyone from her neighbourhood gets the bus to that' school so it will make the journey easier and she wont be on her own going into school.

if she goes to the other one she would have to travel alone.

cestlavielife · 15/05/2014 16:35

has dd said oh I will go to school a - but not this current school? as if she is school refuser then I cant see that change of school will actually change it. unless it is specifically the current school.

has she visited the school you want, what is it about the school that would make her want to go?

that is what you will need to try and explain to panel.

send in any reports etc - they will read them carefully. be prepared to answer questions about the condition she has and diagnosis and why camhs refused her... they will ask "has she been seen by CAMHS" so you might want paper trail showing why not... ie if camhs says she doesn't have an anxiety/MH issue then what does she have?

prh47bridge · 15/05/2014 18:19

no one can say what will and won't cut ice in this situation

Indeed. We can say what might help but ultimately it is down to the strength of the school's case to refuse admission and the way the panel views your case. Sometimes the school is so obviously full that no appeal can succeed, no matter how deserving. Sometimes the case to refuse admission is so weak that any appeal will succeed. And there is no way of knowing exactly what view an appeal panel will take. I think this is potentially good relevant but there are no guarantees. The fact that the only reason your daughter gives is that she doesn't like it is unhelpful.