Cheating in MFL oral exam am I just being naive?

[middleclassonbursary]

At lunch today with friends I was talking to their DC's asking how GCSE's are going, one told me that in the MFL oral exam the teacher asks the question then held up the answer written on a piece of paper. I was stunned then someone else's DC (different school) said his school did it. My DC said his school didn't but his friends with friends at other schools say it's common practice.
I'm completely stunned, this in my book is cheating. One said we do it because everyone else does it.

That should read * * * B

I don't know how you'd complain but you should. Maybe through the JCQ or Ofsted? Or if you raise it with your dc's school they may have contact with the other schools and be able to contact their HMs to look into the depts concerned.

God it'd be even worse if the teachers picked their favourite.

I was accused of cheating on a price of Spanish coursework. (Back then it was one question/statement and you discussed it for approx 100 words and on one a4 sheet. I'd used a tense that was a level standard and she didn't believe I was capable. At the time my mum, her friend and I socialised with a group of Spanish people so it was plausible. I got so nervous I asked them to write me a sentence with the same tense and made sure I got it in there. She then left me on my own in the room to rewrite it. I wish I'd written the whole thing out and cheated.

I got 98 and 99% in Spanish and French respectively but as the same teacher decided I was intermediate in French the highest I could get was a c and I did one paper higher in Spanish so highest I could get was a b

We were allowed a small bit of card with about five short sentences on as reminders. I'm not sure if that was looked at/taken off us. Maybe our teacher was the same

I agree languages weren't good then. It was more about remembering it than learning the language. People thought I was really strange when I said that I'd just remember what I wanted to say in French

if you wont do anything about it, what is the point of the thread?

English but say it in French and spanish!

My DH (now 50) did a MFL in a year when at school. With an external examiner he got a A for the oral but a D overall, he had literally done no work and couldn't write a word but as the teacher only spoke the language in the lessons and he actually has a very good ear for this language (he still even now can speak it but still can't write it) he found the oral easy.

What is the point? I was just surprised that this was happening and wondered if I was being naive.
No one seems to be addressing the point that as the school is already lying then when investigated they will still lie. It's a a mind set like Lance they want something so badly they'll do anything to get it.

get over the Lance thing! Its not the law.

In my eg the person had cheated ( cant go into details) and a colleague saw it, and kids backed it up.

GORN

Purple - dds school did that.
The mfl spoken test seems pointless and a test in memory not language. Dd can't speak her language at all and uses google translate. It's utterly ridiculous.

My kids are older so have all done their GCSEs and I have one finishing her A Levels. I thought it was common knowledge that some teachers cheat with practicals - not just MFL subjects but sciences and other subjects too. It's a minority of teachers but certainly a fair few.

My DD was astounded just recently when her A'level science teacher did a brief review just befor a practical where 'she practically told us the answers'. (Her EXACT words) It actually irritated her as she usually does really well in the practicals on her own.

Another example that shocked us was where a MFL teacher blatantly 'allowed' the students to cheat. I can't remember the details but I know my DC was horrified and felt hard done by as they wouldn't have had cheated themselves.

I had a feeling that the EXAM BOARD cheating scandal that was exposed in 2011 was mainly benefitting private schools but I can't remember for sure.

I have also heard about this going on in some schools for maths challenge papers.

"Get over the Lance thing" it's the same principle just on a smaller scale. You cheat because you want something be it results or winning and you don't care how you get it. It's an attitude of mind.
I can just imagine the scenario "so Mr Jones we've had a third hand report that you cheated in the recent Spanish oral we've no witnesses of course but we feel we should investigate the matter" "oh no of course I didn't do thar" or "my union has advised me not to comment, until you've got definite evidence that I did it."
"Ok we'll talk to the children"
"Hello Freddie did you teacher hold up the answers in your recent MFL oral exam? you know that if he did then you exam will in the worst case scenario be declared null and void and therefore you won't get a grade for it which if you want to continue it into the 6 th form is going to cause you real problems or the best case scenario you grade will be down graded"
"Oh no Sir Mr a Jones would never do a thing like that!"
Get real all of you who think I should report it. Maybe if it was happening to my DS at his school but not some conversation at a lunch.

It's also hard to report cheating if you don't know exactly what the rules for the exams are, which seems to change constantly from year to year and board to board. (I know pupils from a whole variety of schools, and they're all doing slightly different things). I don't know what they are actually allowed to bring into the exam, how much help beforehand is allowed, what sort of preparation is expected, how much choice they are supposed to have in terms of topics/questions, how many times the teacher is allowed to repeat questions, or any of that. So determining what is specific cheating as opposed to things that seem like a pointless way of running an exam would be quite hard.

I'm sorry but if I knew of specific schools where this was happening I would highlight it and make sure there was noise around me highlighting it. I would write to the exam boards, to Ofqual, cc'd to the governors of the schools concerned, and I would go to my MP and the press. If it was a state school I would be involving the LA, which in this borough has various partnerships with the Academies and representatives on the governing bodies. If it is private schools I would involve the ISI and any associations they are part of, the HMC etc. I know that my DDs' private school took it's reputation for integrity so seriously that it insisted on building up quite ridiculous amounts of evidence of need rather than act on the PsychEd reports in recommending extra time, they certainly would not condone this behaviour from a teacher. You presumably don't know if this cheating is sponsored by school leadership teams?

The only way you tackle the "everyone does it so we have to" mindset is to make sure the underlying unfairness and unacceptability is highlighted. Maybe they will just deny it but maybe if it comes under scrutiny they will also think twice about continuing the practise.

One aspect no one has mentioned yet is what sort of moral guidance this is giving young people. That it is right to gain an unfair advantage by cheating?

Presumably none of the children who have been helped with exams will ever go on to A level MFL or an MFL degree course. They would not stand a cat in hell's chance of being successful! Cheating does the children no service at all but some schools do not put the children at the heart of their ethos. As the mother of a linguist I can assure everyone that languages need to be learned and practiced. To study them at a higher level, the student has to have discipline and learn the grammar. Good MFL GCSE results do not indicate a good linguist. There is a massive gap between GCSE and A level and then a massive step up to degree level. How are children meant to speak another language with just 2 hours teaching a week? Only the gifted could do this.

One was going on to do the MFL at A level, he assured me that the "help" he was so kindly given made no difference because he knew the answers already.
If that was the case of course why did the teacher feel the need to give it?

This has bought back memories of my O Level french - yes, we did have external examiners for the oral part of the exam in those days.

I did cheat with my 'subject' though, I had three different titles but the actual subject I prepared to talk about was the same one . Ie; it was something like 'what I do at weekends', 'my part-time job' and a 'local business' - it was all about my weekend waitressing job .

I find MFL orals so different now from how they were when I did them. We had to learn a massive list of vocab, and didn't see all the possible questions beforehand (so couldn't learn set answers the way it seems to be done now). I remember going into my German oral with NO idea what I'd be asked. I did fine, because I'd learnt all the vocab and knew how to construct a sentence. Now, I wouldn't be confident that students with a GCSE knew how to do that. The controlled assessments are learnt beforehand, so just written out from memory. Then the oral is again, pre-learnt. If these teens were to go to that country on holiday, would they actually be able to say anything?

My DS does IGCSE MFL's they don't prepare written answers and memorise these answers in advance. From what I understand they do a role play which they don't know what it's going to be, and talk about themselves they are asked things like where do you live etc the questions are of course predictable but not actually known and then they talk about a subject of their choice again they don't know exactly what questions they will be asked but you can make a reasonably intelligent guess.

This happened when I took French GCSE way back in the 90s. Us pupils knew no better and thought that was how an oral exam was supposed to be. We were told the questions a couple of weeks beforehand and asked to write our replies on cards that the teacher kept hold of. During the exam, we were alone in a room with the teacher, although it was all being taped recorded, she was able to start/stop the tape whenever she felt like it. The teacher simply asked out loud the prepared questions and if we didn't reply immediately, she held up our answer card to be read out for the tape. Like I said none of us realised that wasn't how an oral exam was meant to be.

Until a few months later,after we had sat the reading/writing parts of the exam, we heard the teacher had been sacked. For cheating on the French oral exams and anyone who had done their oral with her would get an automatic U, regardless of the grade in the other parts. We were all offered to retake the following year but I knew of very few who did.

I had a spoken maths exam as part of my degree exams. It wasn't my strongest subject so, I was delighted with my questions all of which were surprisingly easy. When I compared notes with my friends afterwards I realised that I had been asked much easier questions. The lecturer had clearly adjusted the questions for me, she must have been told who was weak as she didn't know us.

I was relieved and it didn't cross my mind to report the lecturer.

This is appalling cheating from a supposed professional. It is also a product of our utter obsession with grades, league tables and teacher liability.

Exam boards expect teachers to conduct examined work in order to save money on having independent invigilators. MFL teachers have oral exams without any other person there to check that they are done properly; English teachers must set five or more written controlled assessments, but then self-mark and submit the grades since the examiners can't be bothered to do so. No one from the exam board turns up to check that the work is done in exam conditions.

Ultimately, we should be able to trust teachers, but when procedures are slack in order to save money on invigilators, and teachers are told they MUST get the best grades possible or face the consequences, it's not surprising.

I would report the teacher. I say that as a teacher. Cheating professionals spoil it for everyone else that plays by the rules.

Get real all of you who think I should report it

I would have no hesitation in reporting this. If nothing happened, at least I tried. But to ignore it, I would feel that I was complicit in the action, and so part of the problem.

Maybe creamteas you're right but how do I do it? shall I call offqual or what ever they're called.
"Hello I'm Mrs Middleclassonbursary I was at a lunch the other and two boys from St X and Y told me that their teacher helped then in their exams, the children's names were A and B. Oh and whiist your on the phone my DS who's at St Z said it doesn't happen in his school but his friends at St A B C D E F said it happens there"
"Yes I am aware that if this is found to be true (although a I doubt you'll be able to prove it) that A and B will both get a U for their GCSE, and A then won't be able to do the subject at A level and their parents will never speak to me again but hey ho".