2 questions about secondary appeals

[LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime]

1. I've just read on some legal advice website that "Arguments including the child's talent and type of education offered at the school will not be taken into consideration." This seems contrary to what I thought - part of our appeal is that DD has a real interest in a subject in which our preferred school offers a GCSE and our allocated school doesn't. Can this still for part of our argument or are we wasting our time with this one?

1. Fair Access Protocol... If a school is full at PAN but takes an additional child under FAP and still gets good results, does this prove that the school can take extra pupils with no problem? I'm sure I read on an old thread that it does but in a book I read it says that the panel aren't allowed to take FAP numbers into consideration.

Thank you!

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The advice here is better than that. Sorry but the Gurus, one of whom will hopefully be here soon actually sit on appeals panels.
No you can't argue DC should go to X because she is bright (unless it is a Grammar school appeal). But you can argue that she should go because she is disadvantaged by not going as she has a demonstrated interest in "hairdressing" or whatever.
FAP isn't so important at this age. What you want to show is that the school can and has taken more than their PAN (that they can physically fit another child in).

My DCs schools all regularly go over their PAN.

You won't to work on showing (with the others who appeal) how little prejudice to already accepted pupils taking extra ones will cause.
And how harmful it is for your DC not to be accepted and why. What unique things this school can offer which match your DCs talents and interests (or even SEN).

1. You can use it as an argument. I think it is part of the whole picture though. I don't think an appeal on the grounds that x offers Latin and y doesn't, has much chance if the parent merely thinks it is potentially a better education. If the child was a gifted linguist and that school offered 3 languages and other schools in the area only 1 then it might, especially if there is some sort of special need or extenuating circumstance. I find most schools local to me are so similar in their offerings that those sorts of arguments don't really come up.

1. Panels don't consider FAP as such. I have heard it argued in reverse by the school ie they cannot possibly take more children - ones they are forced to take under FAP already cause so many problems so they simply can't take another on appeal blah blah. It's a red herring in my opinion.

Thanks both of you. This isn't our main reason for needing this school so the appeal isn't centred on this, it's a secondary reason.

Mummytime, the problem is that this school appear to have only gone over PAN with a FAP child. And I'm wondering whether I can use that info to show that a school can take another child.

I would just show the raw numbers and I'm sure the school will argue it is FAP so forced on them. However I would find out classroom sizes, and how they arrange groups etc. to show they could cope with more.

I would be wary about relying on a PAN argument.

I think the best way to win an appeal is to show the panel that only that particular school will do for your child. I think if the parents' argument is strong enough a panel will allow the appeal whatever the inconvenience to the school.

You need two prongs to your argument - to show the existing students won't be too disadvantaged by an extra pupil.
The second is why your DC needs this school.
There are normally two parts to the appeal. The first part in which the school tries to argue why it can't take any more pupils. The schools arguments can be challenged by parents.
The second part where each parent argues why their child needs to be admitted to that school individually.

1. That legal advice is very poorly worded. Saying that your child is clever and therefore needs a good school won't work (which is what I think they are trying to say). On the other hand an argument that your child is particularly talented at sports and the appeal school is much stronger at sports than the offered school is valid and may win an appeal.

1. The school would argue that they are forced to admit children under the FAP so that doesn't prove they are happy to go over PAN. However, if the school has coped with the additional pupil(s) without problems that is helpful to your appeal.

Fantastic, thanks all! I couldn't have got through this appeal with Mumsnet - you're all SO helpful.