Faith Schools And Racial Segregation?

[scramble69]

Why in this day and age are we still allowed to segregate kids according to faith and race?
In my town in East London Walthamstow in our catchment area there are two Roman Catholic primary schools and one Church of England which draws 95% of the white kids and a few black kids. In my son's school there are 900 kids Bangladeshi/Polish/Bulgarian/Lithuanian etc. and 5 of them are white English kids!
Of mixed parentage myself I find it frustrating that my kid can't mix with other English kids,can't be socialised in English culture,music football etc.
I'm absolutely for the benefits of schooling children about the cultures of the world and the joys of living in an international city but shouldn't local authorities ensure that this segregation situation doesn't happen as it clearly is?

yes, many faith schools are opening up voluntarily
define "many"
none that I've seen outside the North Circular

i live in south woodford (east london). there is a very good catholic school there that everyone wants to go to (not me mind'...). the school is REALLY strict about the criteria to get in (ie have to have been a regular church goes for years, etc). my dd wouldn't be able to get in even if i wanted her to go there. the jewish school has taken non jews for quite a while now. it is apparently a really good school although again, i didn't want dd to go there either....i wanted her to go to a school with a good mix although funnily enough it does now appear to have a good mix but i haven't brought her up as a practising jew (she is half christian too). i know/have known of a few kids over the years who go/went to the jewish school. it seems it teaches 'loads of jewish stuff' etc. just can't imagine people from other faiths sitting through it all. even as a jew i know i wouldn't want to sit through it all . i used to take dd to a jewish playgroup which was pretty hard going but they had lovely biscuits constantly on the go (plus tbh it did have a nice atmosphere, aside from the jewish preaching bit)

define "many"

An optimistic, encouraging and vague synonym for "some"

Seriously though, quoting these FAQs:

"The Church of England is committed to reserving at least 25 per cent of places in new Church of England schools for pupils from the local neighbourhood regardless of faith background or none. In Free schools and new academies this figure rises to 50 per cent but in practice most new Church of England schools reserve less than 50 per cent for Christian applicants."

As an illustration, a new CE free school in my area is 100% open.

And, Talkinpeace, here's a Telegraph article on the topic: www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10205477/No-places-for-churchgoers-in-newly-opened-faith-schools.html

"two new schools"
that is not my definition of many

A third one is mentioned in the article (opened 2011).

I take your point, but the numbers of new CE schools being established are pretty small, so in that context three schools is significant, and a positive trend.

And, Talkinpeace, each and every one raises the moral high ground and sets a precedent for others that follow.

the number of new schools of any hue being set up is not enough : A nice load of secular schools that match society would be good
but Gove is under the psychic power of Bliar and thinks god is good in schools.
More fool him.
More pity those with kids younger than mine.

I regularly bang in about getting rid of faith schools . Opening up admissions is a step in the right direction, but I think we'd be better off as a society if they didn't exist at all.

Bang on, even...

Amber
www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229671.500-god-notbotherers-religious-apathy-reigns.html#.U2aFCvldXTo
the 50% ... 3% stat is my favourite

Talkin/Amber, Governments aren't in the habit of getting rid of things that are popular. Like an earlier contributer [Sat 03-May-14 11:52:38], they think the answer is to create more of the same, because they assume a direct correlation between their popularity and their faith designation.

At least if admissions are opened up, faith schools will compete on a more even socio-economic footing with community schools, and the 'popularity contest' will be less skewed.

The state faith school next door to me wouldn't give me an application form for my kid, saying that there wasn't any point as it was oversubscribed by Catholic children (most of whom lived much further away). I'm not impressed that a school I help pay for won't let my kid in.

Religious apartheid is a bad thing, however attractive it seems for those parents who are in a position to take advantage of it. I don't think some children should be privileged, and some penalised, on the basis of what religion their parents follow.

Plus, it is storing up problems for the years ahead. We have kids growing up now who only know and mix with kids of their own religion. That isn't a recipe for mutual understanding and tolerance when they all grow up.

"What analysis is done of bums on seats rather than pretty looking criteria?"

There was some recently, see here, commissioned by the Church of England. It showed a strong correlation between bums on seats and school places . I expect a lot of people in the church are uncomfortable about that, and a lot of others are perfectly happy with it, but either way it will be causing some much needed internal debate.

"Well two CoE schools with a restriction on the no. of worshippers ..."
All new CoE schools have an upper limit of 50% on faith school places. The three (not two) in the article linked earlier went further in being 100% open. That doesn't "make up for" the others. But it is a welcome trend, not to be sniffed at if it encourages others to do the same.

It's now Diocese of London policy to encourage its new schools to be 100% open. Each school will have to wrestle with its conscience over that, but at least if they ignore the policy they can be held to account. For instance this one has said it can't possibly be 100% open because its partnered with an existing girls' school and they want to treat boys and girls equally. It remains to be seen whether that means they will reduce the faith intake at the girls' school to 50% to match the statutory upper-limit on the new boys' school!

All CofE VC schools are 100% community criteria. VA schools vary - some have quota of community criteria places, others don't.

Other denominations and religions tend to have fewer designated 'non-religious' places.

Labour did indeed allow the opening of large numbers of faith schools (and even allowing for the upswing in Hindu free schools, more than opened under the Tories).

Catholic schools are very diverse. CofE are typical. Muslim, Hindi and Jewish schools less so.

"All CofE VC schools are 100% community criteria"

No they're not. See here.

"Why is there not even a mi imum % of non worshippers on existing schools though?!"

Because you haven't lobbied hard enough for it yet! It would be strongly resisted by the Catholic Education Service. Perhaps less so by the CoE though.

The definition of Catholic education is:
"Catholic education is a lifelong process of human growth and development. It is more than schooling. It begins in the home, continues in the school and matures through involvement with the Christian community in the parish.
These three dimensions of home, school and parish must work together if Catholic education is to truly attain its goal of forming mature human persons in the image and likeness of Christ."

babybarrister, see note 30 at the <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DFE-00013-2012.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">bottom of page 14.

Quote: "Funding Agreements for entirely new Academies (i.e. not convertors from the maintained or independent sectors, or those sponsored Academies with a predecessor school) and Free Schools with a religious character provide that where the school is oversubscribed at least 50% of places are to be allocated without reference to faith"

It only applies to newly opened academies / free schools.
Local Authorities can still open VA schools, which can then convert to academy status, as a legal way of avoiding the 50% rule.

Angeleyes, everyone has the right to educate their child in their own religion, and, as per Article 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998, Part 2, those rights must be respected. However, that doesn't mean there is an automatic right to state funding for it, especially if it leads to (quoting from the link) "unreasonable public expenditure." As the Archdiocese of Southwark says (page 16) "Parents will recognise that the availability of free Catholic schools and colleges is a privilege."

And in the current climate of reduced surpluses and reduced choice that privilege will inevitably come under pressure, because there are lots of other people who would like their own dedicated schools too, not enough money in the pot to fund them all, and an increasingly disgruntled non-religious (or often simply not-religious-enough) population who are being squeezed out as a result of funding being channeled into schools they can't access.

The not-religious-enough thing is an interesting point. I do know devout Catholics here in this area dominated by Catholic schools who still can't get their kids in, as they have to do boring things like work, and so can't do as much dedicated church stuff as people with more money.