Winchester College

[24663664]

Help please from others more experienced than me. DS has a firm place at Win Coll but, strangely, is far more interested in Clash of Clans and Candy Crush than learning French irregular verbs. Latin doesn't quite do it for him either - with DS it is more a case of 'give up and run for it' than 'veni vidi vici'! His maths and science are brilliant though. Scared that Headmaster may free up DS's place for another more deserving! Do any other parents witness that titanic strugle between the screen and academia? How does WC manage the screen these days? DH thinks they ban it but not sure and afraid to ask. Guidance gratefully appreciated. Thanks so much. WC parent to be (maybe!)

Thanks again happygardening, very useful advice. Pity your advice and guidance does not make its way into the information pack for new Win Coll boys as it is supremely helpful - you certainly deserve a commission (not speaking of an Army one for the avoidance of doubt!).

Regarding the fees, the amounts are scary and we are not a wealthy family, just an ordinary family seeking an extraordinary experience for our DS who wants to go to Win Coll and has worked hard for his firm place.

We will not be flashing our money around becuase we don't have enough to be at all interesting to anyone, and even if we did we would not show off!! However, we do plan to send a charming and bright son to Win Coll who we hope will add to the positive experience of all at the school.

Anyhow, the OPs in this thread are all very charming and welcoming. All augurs very well for when DS arrives at Win Coll...without his screen!

We were not told % only grade for each subject, although I think he found out Latin after joining, reluctant to our myself but I will say my DS did really very well, we were very surprised and obviously pleased, but it's pretty normal to get a mixture of B's C's and D"s. A's are only rewarded for a truly outstanding performance so don't be shocked or worried if he get quite a few C's and D's this is common in fact not to get them causes more raised eyebrows.

The other thing they don't do is let boys finish early after their IGCSE's, the boys stay till the end of term. I think it applies to the final term as well they stay till the end even though they've sat their Pre U's. From talking to friends at other boarding schools this is pretty unusual. I don't mind as we are paying for the whole term, a friend at that well know school just off the M4 was moaning that her DS had finished all his GCSE's by the May half term and was now home till September but she was still paying for the whole term.

Agree with all that HG and Xpatmama have already said. The other relative negative is that for intermediate musicians there is very little offered in way of music ensembles and that some of the team sport coaching is variable (definitely not up to high overall standards of schools like Radley). As HG said there is no flexibility in allowing outside club coaching during the term time.
I'm guessing OP that your DS is a likely music scholar so the former won't be a problem.
The headmaster does also tend to repeat the same speeches so not the most engaging of public speakers .

Yes summer you're right the same speech at every parent teacher meeting! There were plenty of rolling eyes at the last one it's the fourth time I've heard the same speech.
Re: the sports coaching the boys were reminded by the head at the beginning of last year that "it's not about sport but academia" but then no one sends their DS to Win Coll because they're a budding top sportsman or you want retired Team GB sportsman as coaches or current GB team coaches for that matter.

Actually HG, the hockey players do have an England hockey player(in the last Olympics) to coach them. He's supposed to a wonderful coach and very unassuming, (rather like Winchester

That's good to hear about the entrance exam grades. His prep school only send about one boy every couple of years to WinColl, so it's hard to tell how well my DS has been prepared and where he will be in the pecking order when he gets there. I'm hoping he will be at least in the middle of the pack, just for his own self esteem. He wants to be in the top third, but that doesn't mean he is prepared to work all holiday to achieve it. Personally I just want him to be happy when he gets there. He averaged 68% in his mocks, which was the first time he had ever done any Winchester papers. Hope that will be good enough!

Don't get me wrong summer there are some real successes on the sports field, golf is apparently doing well, xcounty I believe is strong, the fencing team also seem to have had another good year, and the rowing results seem to be improving and I'm sure everyone is hoping Mr Fox will work wonders with the rowing although the Itchen is hardly the Thames. I understand there is or going to be a new director of sport but it's never going to take sport as seriously as schools like Radley or Eton. But the head is right that's not what it's ever been about.

Agree with you HG.
Yotty, sounds as though your DS is doing really well. He will have a lovely rest of summer term when all the others are ploughing through CE.
The setting is based on exam grades for all but DIV that can change quite a bit. You may know more than I do for this but they are changing the timetables and number of lessons which means that there will more opportunity for boys starting next year to do additional MFLs.

And now for the very sensitive matter hard to speak about...here goes and any feedback is most welcome and much appreciated as ever:

DS is very keen on Win Coll and we definitely have enough cash now to cover the first three of the five years of fees (roughly 100,000 pounds+ for the first three years). However, should DH lose his City job we would have to pull DS out of school and send him to Sixth Form College, a scenario that I fear - we would love for DS to do all five years at Win Coll.

EXAM QUESTION: Were you in our position (ordinary professional UK family, not uber-wealthy or anything like that, dependant on employment in the City) would you advise (a) the cheaper option of a local private day school for all five senior years (b) Win Coll for three years / Sixth Form College for two years (c) None of the above? Discuss.

I should be fascinated to hear your views, and relieved to know what you think. The future is hard to predict for me and we find ourselves in this dilemma...are we the only ordinary family thinking of Win Coll?

Thanks again in advance for your wise and understanding counsel...

I would apply for a bursary if I found I couldn't afford it. 12% are on bursaries the average is 60% (according the annual report we've just received) the school has already written to current parents about bursaries and their web site states they are very committed to bursaries. I would link it in but dont know how to but I'm sure you can find it.
If this doesn't appeal or you don't want to take that chance it's a very difficult question,
The change from Win Coll to a sixth form college however good would be enormous, I know because DS1 is at a very good sixth form college so I know what the difference is. Win Coll is pretty unique, it is also likely that he would be significantly ahead of his peers at a 6 th form college especially for math or a MFL, the camaraderie between the boys, not only because it's boarding but very house centric is very strong I think a boy would take a long time to settle if the change was made especially if it wasn't completely voluntary and 6th formers don't have time to settle. So maybe it would be better to have never experienced Win Coll then have to move on the basis of what we never have had we can't miss. I'll be interested to know what others advise.

I agreed with HG, ask for bursary first if thing changes. But again they do need to get the grades to stay for 6th form. I heard from my DS that one of the boy in his house had been asked to look for another school, and that boy would not be back for 6th form. I'm sure it will be tough for him knowing that he can't stay but still has to go through IGCSE exams with all the other boys.

Tough question 24663664! I would say it would depend on what the day alternative was. If it was say St Paul's or Kings college then maybe life would be less stressful for your family as a whole, knowing that you had enough money for the school fees. How stressed is your DH about his job situation?
Having said that I am a glass is half full person and sometimes you just gave to go for something even if it is a bit of a risky strategy. 6/7 years ago we wondered how we were going to afford the fees, but so far everything has gone according to plan and we will manage it. Although, expensive holidays will definitely be off the agenda for quite sometime.
Do you have any other children that you have to consider?

The requirement for the 6 th form is at least 6 A's and as Xpat says some are being advised to leave. A friend with a DS further up the schools said 60% of his year got "that letter" following IGCSE mocks in his yr stating they would not be allowed to stay on if they didn't improve their results although if course nearly all did.
It would be demoralising trying to study knowing you're not being allowed to return.

Not that many seem to leave though, on average 1 per house (ie 1:12). I know that over the last few years for some of those it has been a question of choice as they want a different type of school in the sixth form (possibly some whose parents might have wanted them to go to Winchester at 13 but were n't really suited) or are keen for co-ed.

My feeling re bursaries is that the school would support a boy who is thriving there if there were financial problems later on but I have no hard facts to support this.

No not many fail to get the required grades, I think "the letter" is a warning shot across the bow, I was surprised at those who received it in my DS's house this year.
I too think the school would financially support a "thriving" boy if necessary.

Wow - thank you happygardening, Xpatmama88, yotty and summerends. The quality of all your brilliant answers and insights further convinces me of the wisdom in sending DS to Win Coll. It has brightened up an already sunny Easter weekend too. So thanks so much to you all. The only cloud on the horizon in an otherwise sunny sky is the absolute inevitability of one of 'those letters' for DS come IGCSE time in 2018...really valuable insight though! Like all the other boys, DS will no doubt pull the rabbit out of the hat come real IGCSEs. DH says this type of scholastic torture is simply 'six of the best' in another form (DH has lots of barbaric tales from his old all boys' school, all unprintable these days, he probably knows...)

To answer yotty's good questions (a) DH works 12 hour days, is always amazed that anyone would want to employ him, but always seems to survive the stalinist purges in the City (fairly stressed therefore) (b) we have a DD who is interested in Wycome Abbey at sixth form but who is currently at a co-ed private school as a day girl having turned down a firm place at Cheltenham Ladies' College against our advice.

Summarising, we are pretty strapped for cash given these commitments. But what is one to do when DS wants Win Coll and DD wants Wycombe Abbey? The trials and tribulations of this life...rivers and streams know my grief!

Not being funny but i wonder what the schools that only admit 'moneyed' ' stand for' that is so laudable ?

ducky I'm unsure how helpful your post is. Win Coll is committed to widening it's access by increasing it's bursary fund year on year obviously not all can be on bursaries by put unlike many others it is trying.

I am a UK Chartered Accountant and I might be able to shed light on this topic.

All UK private schools, including the very best ones such as Win Coll and Eton, have to admit those of poorer backgrounds or their charitable status risks being revoked. If such revokation were to happen, fees would rise substantially and VAT would be levied on the fees (at 20% or whatever the applicable rate is at the time). Conscious of this, UK private schools are only too willing to help those of poorer financial status and actually welcome those seeking bursaries provided that the admissions criteria are met. In the case of Win Coll, high academic standards seem to form much of the eligibility criteria.

Personally I think it great that access to private education has broadened over the years. For one thing, it helps the private sector to really act as charities. Another matter is the significant relief on the public purse occasioned by 5% of UK children going for private education - the attendant reduction of the HM Treasury deficit must be a welcome by-product of private education. I therefore see paying school fees as not only helping DS but also an act of general philanthopy and patriotism.

I agree with happygardening - Win Coll is a shining light when it comes to doing the right thing.

Hope that helps.

Hi, question for happygardening (and anyone else with boys at Winchester) - we are thinking about it for our DS (he's only Yr 4 at a local Prep so early days). We live in central Winchester and I wondered if you could give me some idea of how much free time they have during the day and at weekends when they are allowed to go into town on their own (and he could therefore pop home if he wanted). From reading through threads it seems they can do this on a Sunday after chapel but just wondering about daily routine e.g. evenings during the week. Would be good to hear this from the horses mouth as one of the reasons we would look at Winchester over other schools is the advantage of being close by, but if in reality they don't get much free time during the week this might make less of a reason. Thanks.

Martha they don't get any free time in the evenings to go out, including Saturdays due to prep. Some of the boys may have a bit of time in the afternoons when they can potentially wander into Winchester. However as they get older they are more likely to want to meet friends than parents . The boys who do a fair amount of sport or music or whatever extracurricular find it hard to fit in a visit to the shops except for Sundays.
You would find it easy to visit watch matches though or go to concerts or plays or whatever your DS is likely to be into.

Your DS would not be allowed out of house on weekday evenings prep is between 7-9 pm (ish) then attendance at a house meeting at 9 15 Mon-Sat, the house meeting also takes place on Sunday evening. They are allowed into Winchester on their own in the afternoons when they don't have other commitments.
The obvious question is why would you send your DS to a full boarding school like Winchester when you or he want him to be able to come home in his spare time? A Winchester education is about being part of a full boarding community and all the benefits that brings, it's very collegiate, the dons, your fellow students, the numerous activities the collegiate lifestyle are all there for the boys to take advantage of and that's what it's all about, it's a 24/7 community, boys for very strong bonds between each other, those who get the most out it are fully part of that community not living so close to the school that they are able to pop home every day (I suspect very few if any do). If you think he'll want to come home everyday or you'll want to see him every day look at another school not a Win Coll this is one if the few remaining proper full boarding schools and also parents are expected to be hands off.
Of course its hard to imagine when your DS is only yr 4 with perhaps little experience of boarding them happily settling into full boarding life, and it's hard to imagine not seeing them very day but when he's yr 9 he will be a different child and you an he might feel differently.

Thanks for your replies, very helpful.

I have had many debates about education with friends. I read the OECD report on education around the world. Our state system is on a par with Germany and the US which are two of the most economically successful countries globally. The state system here is ranked very highly in terms of the broad range if education which is offered. I used to date a Dutch guy for many years and in Holkand you are expected to do sport and art outside of school and they don't offered meals so children have to go home for lunch. The OECD report compared children from private and state education and adjusted for IQ and socioeconomic circumstances the state system actually produces better results. There is a lot if research in the subject if degree results. Children from state schools do significantly better than privately educated children at university with higher average grades. I don't believe that it is totally to do with social engineering but a simple fact that universities are also now more like businesses and need to compete on a global stage to produce good research, good grades etc... Obviously if you choose most of your students from a pool if 6 % of the population which is roughly what the private sector represents you are likely to be missing a lot of talent from the 94 % of the rest of the population. A lot if private schools are so highly selective that you can't in any way compare the output with schools which are not selective and where children may be getting free school meals. A lot of state schools also get better results than a lot if private schools especially when the catchment area is more affluent. Not all state schools produce students speaking with a poor diction either if that is what most concerns you as a parent. There are a lot lower issues at state schools like anorexia, bulimia and laxative taking than at boarding schools and despite the fact that some of my male boarding school friends think it us normal to have been abused at school it us rare at day schools. These issues also need to be weighed up too. The Times is currently running a series of articles on the fact that private schools are alarmed at the scale of mental health issues.