OCR Additional Maths

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DD Year 11 got an A* for GCSE maths last Nov. Her top set then started the OCR Additional Maths. They have just done a mock and she got a U as did about half the class. She struggles with it alot (obviously!), in fact finds some of it incomprehensible. She reckons with some work she might get it up to a D in the June exam. I certainly can't help. Her teacher is relaxed and says that they will all do better by June in her experience with similar groups.

DD is not planning to take maths at A level. I'm therefore wondering what the benefit to her is of continuing with this. She has the rest of her GCSEs to take in May/June and I reckon she should now focus all her effort on these.

Also, if she did badly, would this show up on the UCAS form even if she doesn't include it - and would that be a bad thing or show perseverance? I'm just interested to get some opinions - am I missing some benefits, is it good to be challenged this much? DD herself is not especially concerned and intends to have a go at the exam.

It's a hard course - designed for Year 11 students but including work from Maths AS level (indeed most would agree it's harder than an AS Maths unit).

Nationally around 30% of students who take the course get a U grade - and that's only from the pool of able mathematicians who take the paper.

It's main use is that students who take it, even those who get a U, hit the ground flying at AS level and do much better as a result. This doesn't apply to your daughter though.

The other key advantage is that the course carries UCAS points in it's own right. If your daughter goes on to get BBB at A level she'll have more UCAS points than another student who has BBB but without the add maths course. For some Unis this will be a discriminator in her favour.

My experience of teaching the course is that the pieces do "tend to fall into place" late in the course and students do tend to do significantly better in June than in mocks. Last year our mocks were January and many (most) students who got E/U grades ended up with A/B/C grades once they started doing past papers and genuine revision.

She will have to declare all grades on her ucas form. Personally if it was my DD and she had no intention of doing AS maths, I would withdraw her from the exam officially but continue to attend the class just in case she changes her mind re AS subjects.

My DD did it alongside her gcses in year 11 and found it very difficult. She got a C but that was with a huge amount of work and lots of past paper practice. She is doing A level maths and so for her, the effort was worth it - she found many of the topics covered at AS a bit easier than those who hadn't done it, but this won't apply to your DD.

With the benefit of hindsight and the amount of work it takes, I too would withdraw her from the exam so that she can use her time on her gcses.

Hope that helps a little.

My own DD struggled with this course but is now taking her A2s - including maths. It was touch and go how she'd get on after a confidence shattering mock - D, I think, but she got an A in the real thing. But her required A levels included maths so she had to stick at it.

Another reason fro carrying it on other than studying maths at A level is the understanding it will give your DD for other subjects that use maths - chemistry, biology, psychology, economics etc. the maths would help alongside the A levels in those subjects. And for university, if she wants to study a social science, the add maths might help on entry requirements ( for the few places that still allow you to study economics without maths, for instance, it might be a plus point)

Does your DD know what she wants to study at uni, if she's planning on that next step?

Where did you get that 30% figure from, steview? That seems astonishing if true, surely no one would enter their kids for it.

This grade breakdown website
www.bstubbs.co.uk/gcse.htm
suggests 2.4% of students get a U in Additional Maths, with 92.8% getting A*-C. I don't know if that is the OCR course, or includes other courses, but it seems like a more reasonable figure.

That's all really helpful perspective, thank you. Thought the thread was a non starter actually so special thanks to steview!

To answer beckandcall DD is undecided re future, tho has developed some interest in psychology, speech therapy, child development. After a really good work experience with speech therapists. Partly I think that was just a light bulb moment about work being a fabulous alternative to school!

Because she is fairly undecided, she is planning to take the A levels she most enjoys and is best at English lit, Spanish, music and psychology. Maths would clearly make a lot of sense, and DD had started to see it as an option, but the additional maths has knocked it on the head.

Actually useful to discover how very hard AS would be. I now think, given she plans to plough on, that it does keep her options open a tiny bit, and that she might as well have a go, especially given the big leaps some people can make in the last two months. I might also have this conversation with her maths teacher after Easter.

Hmm, I'm rambling. Thanks again, so useful.

I have a similar situation with my DS. He got an A for his Maths GCSE last year in Year 10. All the kids with As and A*s were put forward for AQA Further Maths in Year 11 with the As also retaking Maths. He was told that if at any point he wanted to drop out he could. At first he was fine but now is finding it tough and considering dropping it.

He is not planning to study Maths at A or AS level so it's not a necessity. I suppose a good grade would be beneficial but we don't really know what grade he's likely to get as he hasn't done any official Mocks in the subject. When the A* kids have taken the Mock Exam or past papers in exam conditions, the A kids have been given an ordinary Maths GCSE paper instead.

He has looked at past papers at home, panicked but then worked through them with the support of DH (who has Maths A level and used Maths in his degree). DH thinks he'll be fine and having DH around to help DS revise is definitely a plus. I do worry though that he'll be disappointed if he gets a low grade and that it could affect his chances with some universities. He is predicted to get As and A*s in his other subjects. However, I'm also worried that if he drops it at this stage, it won't be processed in time and might show up as an absence!

DS was offered the chance to take it alongside maths GCSE this June. He has found it really hard and decided to drop it and to concentrate on trying to get an A* in maths.

He has done the coursework and is doing a level maths but didn't want to spend ages revising for additional at the expense of other GCSEs.

He got a c in his additional maths mock with no revision so I thought he should carry on but he dropped it.

There is a big difference between the aqa and the ocr add maths. The opening remarks on the 2013 examiners report says it all really. 15% of students didnt achieve 20% of the marks.

That's worth knowing, BadKitten, thank you. I was a bit concerned after reading steview's stats about the OCR and also the OP about A* pupils getting U grades.

DS is going to talk to his teacher today. He said this morning that he can actually follow what's going on in class fine, but is very daunted by the past papers unless he has DH there to talk him through. It's a shame he hasn't actually done any past papers in exam conditions, I think.

Tea there is no coursework for OCR Additional Maths. I have taught this course and whilst it is brilliant for high-achieving pupils who are confident of their A*, and it will give them a fantastic boost if doing A level, there is little benefit if a pupil is not intending to study Maths further. If it is taking a disproportionate amount of time and detracting from other subjects, I would say drop it. I do agree with the teacher though; pupils make big strides at a late stage when it all cones together.

If he's taking A-level maths then he may well kick himself further down the line for not spending the extra time on his maths before A-level starts. There's a huge leap between GCSE maths and A-level, which causes quite a few students, even A/A* grade ones, to flounder and possibly drop out in Y12. These additional maths courses are designed specifically to bridge that gap and try to stop so many students falling at the first hurdle.

Just to add to my point. The AQA course is a Level 2 course. The OCR course is level 3.

DD2 is doing the level 3 edexcel algebra course as a 'bridge' between GCSE and AS level.
DD1 did this last year and it seemed to work well - set 1 did the additional maths and some did very poorly (and had their confidence knocked) despite them having A*s or very high As at GCSE in year 10. Set 2 did the algebra course - DD1 was a high A and opted to go in set 2. Although supposedly both level 3, the algebra course wasn't as difficult as it had less content. DD1 enjoyed the course and is doing very well at AS maths. As a result of this 'trial', this year all of set 1 and 2 in year 11 are doing the algebra course (with a bit of extra content as well) and not additional maths.

We have to be careful as we are getting several courses mixed up here:

GCSE Additional Maths (a level 2 course which is another GCSE just with more, a bit harder, stuff in it). That has the 3% U grade rate.

FSMQ Additional maths (which is designed to be a level 3 course ie. with AS level maths difficulty stuff in it). The failure (U grade) rate was 27% last year.

Data is at www.ocr.org.uk/Images/142194-provisional-exam-statistics-june-2013.pdf (page 9) - it's the advanced course not the intermediate one.

When I was at school, the top maths set did maths "o"level a year esrly and then took what was called "additional o level" maths. I got an "a" in maths o level, started AO maths and it was like the maths teacher was suddenly speaking in a foreign language. The jump was huge, and people like me without a maths brain just sank. I remember starting to hate maths lessons as I didn't understand a word of it.

My ds2 is doing FSMQ and loving it, predicted high score, and clearly able to cope. He is planning to do maths and further maths A levels. DS1 didn't do FSMQ, and struggled hugely with maths A level as he found the jump from GCSE too much. Had he done FSMQ in Year 11 it might have made him think twice about whether he is cut out for maths A level.

if your dd isnt wanting to do maths A level and is struggling with the additional GCSE, surely she'd be better off dropping it?

OP here again. Its the FSMQ she's doing RuddyDuck, not the GCSE. We'll be discussing with the maths teacher next term. It's frustrating, 36 in the class, a few of them just get it, most don't (yet), hard for the teacher to give individual support. And they only started the course in Nov. It feels like a shame to give up maths after the euphoria of very good GCSE result. DD says she did no revision for the mock and was 2 marks off an E, so she is up for giving it a go and passing. I kind of admire that, but not very tactical in terms of focus.

Good to get all this feedback, interesting perspective.

36 in the class!!! 36! Poor teacher!

6 months for this course is not very long. I am also surprised at how big your DD's class is. The benefit is in studying the extra material though - they don't need to sit the exam!

Two classes of similar numbers doing the FSMQ, DD reckons they might be around 34 in each now, 36 was the number in her class sitting the GCSE early and a couple then went down a set to retake the GCSE. So say 70 of 210 intake taking the FSMQ. Yes poor teachers (DD's is a school favourite, very full on and high energy, which I guess is the only type who can manage this), but poor students too, especially those ones who might have a chance in smaller classes.

On the other hand, you either get it or you don't, and I think the chance has been very useful in showing DD what AS level would be like. Hellsbells your comment very useful - thanks for that. Over and out I think (late comment, just back from short break!)