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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Horrified!

62 replies

Educator2014 · 21/03/2014 11:12

Today I happened on an article about how a mother was treated by when, on this site, she expressed concern about her 14 year old studying Mogadishu.
I have to say that as an educator myself I am concerned that children are subjected to such sensitive topics in this form. A teachers job is to educate and create better world citizens. I take no issue with the topics covered, racism, bullying, violence, self-harm and suicide are sadly all still part of our lives and educating children on their effect on history, as well as on the current personal and world view will aid in preventing history from repeating itself. The problem is how the topics are presented! For Mr Chris McGovern, chairman of the Campaign for Real Education to say “Students allowed themselves to be moved by its themes rather than be hung up on the sometimes gritty vernacular" is a cop out.

As an educator I understand that sometimes parents concern for their children can go too far, but this mothers concern is legitimate!
For educators to attack her is unacceptable!
‘As a teacher, I will say very bluntly how sick and f tired I am of parents like you who think they are experts on all f areas of the curriculum.’
If a student spoke like this they would be reprimanded and this from a person responsible for the education of your children?!
"Censorship – that’s what you want. So you can impose your middle- England, white, middle-class values on a world that no longer exists."
This smacks of race and class discrimination! Again this from an educator?!
What hope do today's children and in turn the future of modern society have when educators seem unable to articulate themselves with out profanity or bias.

OP posts:
BettyBotter · 21/03/2014 18:51

I take it from your liberal sprinkling of exclamation marks post that you aren't an English teacher? (As in an educator of English literature rather than a teacher living in England). Ds is currently studying 'Of Mice and Men' for GCSE, as are tens of thousands of others. Topics covered in the novel include visits to the local 'whorehouse', sexual assault, racism and murder.

So, should we ban high level literature in case they cover sensitive topics?!!!

LeBearPolar · 21/03/2014 18:55

I think, to be fair, to the OP, she doesn't mind what the texts are about as long as no-one swears in them.

Brothels, incest, rape, murder, domestic abuse, torture, drugs...bring it all on as long as no-one uses a profanity Shock

adoptmama · 21/03/2014 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

cory · 21/03/2014 19:46

LeBear, I saw Lysistrata at my dd's sixth form college last term. The erections were bloody ginormous clearly visible.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 21/03/2014 20:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LeBearPolar · 21/03/2014 21:30

cory - I think you should report yourself and your DD's sixth form college to the Daily Fail for such shocking behaviour.

Will no-one think of the children!

adoptmama · 21/03/2014 21:38

v. curious as to why my post was deleted. I never accused anyone of being a troll. Never made a personal attack on any poster. Never broke the law. Didn't spam. Didn't troll hunt.

I genuinely fail to see how I broke any T & Cs

LeBearPolar · 21/03/2014 21:50

Someone's a bit trigger-happy on the delete button tonight! Maybe MNHQ have got the gin in and are watching Sport Relief and have to take a swig and delete a post every time Davina McCall cries...

ormirian · 21/03/2014 21:51

Sorry, what was the problem? Was it not very nice? Oh dear.

LeBearPolar · 21/03/2014 21:52

I liked your post, adoptmama. It was the one about pitchforks and fatwas, wasn't it?

LeBearPolar · 21/03/2014 21:53

Oh no, it wasn't! That was donnie's post! So what did you say, adoptmama?

EvilTwins · 22/03/2014 00:19

I've just returned from the theatre, where I saw a play in which mistaken identity led to extra-marital sex. It was horrifying. I hope my children never have to study such filth. It was written by some unknown chap - William something. Disgusting.

littledrummergirl · 22/03/2014 00:35

Ds is currently studying 'Of Mice and Men' for GCSE, as are tens of thousands of others. Topics covered in the novel include visits to the local 'whorehouse', sexual assault, racism and murder.

Ds1 (13) has just finished that for GCSE. Its nice to know there are a few less topics that I need to discuss with him now. Smile

(totally misses the point, wanders off again.)

HerGraciousMajTheBeardedPotato · 22/03/2014 00:51

Oh, is that what the OP was about? I couldn't make head or tail of it. I get that s/he claims to be an 'educator'...not of English, I hope!

(LeBear, I could answer most of those questions, and I failed Eng Lit.)

adoptmama · 22/03/2014 06:07

What I said, in summary, was that I doubted the OP of this particular thread is an 'educator'. Which others have said without their posts being deleted. The OP has implied I am - and by extentsion any other teacher who swears on a public forum - unfit to do my job which seems to be a much more 'attack-ish' statment than mine.

I doubt s/he is an educator as I would expect a teacher to know that nothing I said (on the petition thread and as quoted by this OP in her opening post) 'smacks of race or class discrimination.' Saying someone hold white, middle class values does not smack of any kind of 'discrimination'. Discrimination is an act and unless I then advocate locking all white middle class people up (which I suspect would therefore include myself and most of my colleagues) I am in no way advocating discrimination. Nor was I being prejudiced as my statement was not a generalisted one about the entire white, middle class population but specific to the comments and attitudes of the OP in the petition thread and were relevant in the context of that OPs remarks about the play and teachers in general. So put that on your needles and knit it! If you are going to make accusations about posters, at least accuse them of things which make sense.

I said that the OP of the original - sign my petition - thread was a hypocrit for wanting the thread deleted from here and then touting it to the mail where she named her own daughter, making her searchable to anyone on the internet. Personally I would not do that to anyones child, especially my own. Nothing new there - it has been said now on the original petition thread and on the other thread on Secondary about the DM story. And I said that the Petition OP must have copied said thread before requesting its deletion as she had it to hand over to the DM. Finally the reason given by the petition OP for requesting deletion of the thread here was not the same as she gave the DM.

I said that this behaviour was dishonest. Which, by any definition of the word 'dishonest' it was. Again this was not troll hunting, making a personal attack etc. It was a legitimate comment and no different from similar comments by quite a few posters on the other two threads.

I said that I wasn't a bad teacher simply because I swore on a public forum.

Although I have been accused of that both on here and in the national press (and if that doesn't constitute personal attacks I don't know what does). The whole OP of this thread is, by extension, a personal attack on me :)

But I am ok with it not being deleted as I have my big girl pants on.

I named a bunch of fancy-schmancy unis I have seen my ex-pupils progress onto, which pretty much proves the fact that my swearing on a public forum doesn't prove my incompetence or unsuitability to teach(you know cos I don't actually do that in my classroom.)

I said that I consider it more immoral to make a teacher - the drama teacher of the original sign-my-petition thread - identifiable on a public forum. And that type of behaviour is more wrong than swearing. In addition I said I consider hypoctrical or fraudulent behaviour worse than swearing or being or behaving in bigoted way worse than swearing. I did not say the OP of this thread was doing any of these things and I think if you read the post properly you would know I was not talking about this OP but the actions of the petition-OP (who I could name as she has named herself in the media but who I won't). So, again, I do not see the T & Cs were broken.

I pointed out that the cause of the OP of that petition thread is supported by a neo-nazi, fascist, anti-semitic, homophobic web site called the daily stormer. Which I true, googleable and not breaking t&c's as far as I can see as there appears to be nothing in the T & Cs saying you cannot mention nasty, from-the-gutter web sites (cos that would definitely rule out mentioning the Mail on here). It is one of the higest search results on google when you search for the media story. I said in relation to that, all things considered, I would rather be slated by the DM readership that supported by that website. In fact on reflection now I would add that if i were actually being supported by that web site that would be a giant wake up call to me that I needed to reflect on my behaviour and attitude!

I didn't even swear :)

Although I did have some sentence-construction issues due to not proof reading, which is obviously a serious offense in an 'educator' such as myself :)

Now I presume the OP of this thread or someone who agress with him/her complained to MN that I had some how broken T & Cs. I fail to see how I did that. I think I made a fair comment in a reasonable way.

Onesleeptillwembley · 22/03/2014 09:05

I agreed the poster was an educator! In a very caring manner!

NewtRipley · 22/03/2014 09:13

I am still a brain surgeon

LeBearPolar · 22/03/2014 09:38

Am trying and failing to see why your post should have been deleted, adoptmama.

I worry if it is going to become fine to spout ill-informed rubbish but not to respond to it in a robust way. What kind of forum is that where debate is not encouraged?

Not that there's much debate with the OP as, true to form with these kind of threads, she appears to have tossed in a grenade and then run off cackling. Ever noticed how certain types of posters never have the courage to actually stand up for their opinions? I guess it's because in some subconscious recess of their minds, they realise that they wouldn't bear very much scrutiny.

BettyBotter · 22/03/2014 10:44

Adoptmama I feel very disgruntled on your behalf. How very rational and considered your response has been in response to what actually is censorship of your post on the part of MN. Sad

Come on, dear MNHQ. There has been an awful lot of bowing to the pressure of bullyboys who have expensive lawyers recently. Let's stick up for common sense a bit, eh?

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 22/03/2014 19:43

Oooh I got my first ever deletion - appropriately enough for a very mumsnet abbreviation which was in fact swearing. But not necessarily a personal attack...

But totally support adoptmama's statement and think she has been wrongly and unfairly deleted. MNHQ - this isnt right and you should not be supporting people who join MN to attack us for behaving within the rules and like Mumsnetters.

TheVictorian · 24/03/2014 20:24

Wheres the op of this thread ?

Onesleeptillwembley · 24/03/2014 20:50

Shaving their hands. Bet this gets deleted. GrinGrinGrin

pointythings · 24/03/2014 21:25

All this pearl clutching isn't new - a couple of years ago when I was relatively new to MN, a poster objected to this poem being taught because it was too full of cruelty and so on.

She didn't get many people agreeing with her.

I want my DDs to be taught challenging plays, poetry and other literature by teachers who are passionate about their subject, and who won't stick to a 'safe' reading list. I want teachers who realise that literature, drama and poetry of merit is being written now, teachers who are not mired in old dead writers to the exclusion of all else.

I am glad that there are still such teacher around, and parents who support them.

motown3000 · 24/03/2014 22:27

The New "Mary Whitehouse" ...

Actually , I have just googled her interesting.

She taught Art and Sex Education at Madeley Modern School in Shropshire in 1960 was shocked and dismayed by her pupils response to moral issues.

"Bad Language Coarsens the whole quality of life"

December 1974.
"Deliberate Propagation" of the idea that there is no proof of the effects of Television/ Theatre on "Standards or Behaviour" is to " Declaim or pervert the truth".

EvilTwins · 25/03/2014 07:31

I never knew that Mary Whitehouse was a teacher. My dad went to that school.