Private parents, please will you talk to me about results?

[SantanaLopez]

DH and I are talking about having DC2. We could definitely afford private for 1, but probably only private secondary for 2 DC.

Except.... Do you ever feel like your DC are letting you down if they don't get good results? I can't help but think how much money it is. I know that I would have felt guilty if my parents had paid so much for my education.

DH thinks I am worrying too much. He says that we'd be paying for the experience and ethos as much as results.

Well, you dont know where you might move, so check out the local primaries, all of them. Our children had a really good education from the state system. Their primary is ofsted outstanding and top of the league tables in our borough. You dont need a private primary to get a love for learning, you can get that elsewhere, and through your family life. I think there are many ways you can enrich your childrens lives that will give them passion and understanding of the world around them, be it museums, nature reserves, parks, galleries, etc.

You are right Martorana, it is a bit like putting all your eggs in one basket, and a basket with a weak weave.

OP I can honestly say that I expect no particular set of results for the fees I pay.

Those often come as a natural result of the things I do expect, but they're not a given and certainly not my motivation.

Your DH is absolutely correct. You pay for the day to day experience, not a sheet of paper with a list of A*s.

We are luck in Gloucestershire to have 4 Grammar Schools that the DSs could apply to. There are also 3 excellent comps and if we had not been told we could be fairly confident about 11+ we would have moved house to as close as we could get to one of the good comps.

I have never felt I was buying results - just as well as my children always do the least needed to achieve their particular end (a very useful life skill). Eg the eldest went to Bristol, got AAB - that is 10 years ago now. She got loads of things out of school - her passion for riding, her very very best friends who were recently her bridesmaids and a supportive peer group all with similar London jobs who live near her in zone 1, all her music and choice experiences, her self confidence (although I think it was pretty innate in her case) and verbal skills and the fact I liked being part of that school (Haberdashers), the parent events, the fields, lake, ambience, other parents etc etc I certainly did not feel I was buying grades. if you want high grades in your children spend loads of time at home pushing them - just about any parents can do that if that's what they are after although it must be very dull for all concerned. I always worked full time though so we could pay 5 sets of fees and I ensured I picked a career in my teens which would manage that so i n a sense I reaped what I sowed. Not all women do that.

Martorana, Grammar entrance in Gloucestershire 10 years ago was not as competitive as it is now and we had a specialist tutor for 11+ as prep school prepared for common entrance not 11+. You can never be sure, obviously, but we had found out enough to be reasonably confident our sons would comfortably get places. DS1 did however get one question very wrong - he assumed a grapefruit was smaller than a grape!

Having done both State and Private I would say it depends on the school. If you have a poor state secondary option then I would bite the bullet and pay. If you have a decent state secondary then I would only pay if I could afford it easily.

To answer the question in the OP, no, I do not feel like we will ever put ds under extra pressure because we are paying for his education.

He's not there for the results: well, to some extent he is, but by that I mean the smaller, quieter classes and additional support will naturally afford him the opportunity to do his best. He's mostly there for the pastoral care. We just expect him to try hard (he does), be kind and polite (he is) and to take advantage of some of the additional opportunities afforded him (this is where he could 'let us down', not being a natural joiner-in).

We don't expect him to work any harder than he would have at a state school, and we don't expect him to be 'grateful' for the choice WE made for him: for how can he compare?

We DO expect a better level of communication and information from his school than we would have got at a state school (Dh and I work at 2 of the schools ds could potentially have attended), with specific regard to his additional needs and progress; we get that and more and are very pleased with the school and our decision.

I expect the school I choose for my DC to be capable of taking them to their full potential (many schools are not capable of this) and I expect my DC to avail themselves of the teaching at school. I do not "expect" a particular set of examination results in return for money (or anything else) and if my DC fail to achieve the desired outcomes I shall only put the blame at their feet if they deserve it!

I must have read the OP differently to some others on here.

I read it that the OP can afford rivate for primary and secondary for one child, but if they had two DC they could only afford to go private fr secondary (and not primary).

Could you clarify maybe?

I don't think school, or certainly no school I've ever come across, brings kids to their full potential. In the same way, I don't think parents fulfil our children to their full potential. I certainly don't even though I'm probably a little pushy and ambitious for them. Gwyneth Paltrow is trying hard but I wonder if she's sacrificing her children's creativity. You learn a lot during the lulls in life, when there's nothing doing.

I think some people think they pay fees and hand over their boy (who is selected for his potential) and the success is guaranteed. It is so not like this. I've seen so many boys and girls fail to achieve as they should. Many of them incredibly bright, at excellent (fee paying and otherwise) schools and with sensible and supportive parents.

Lots of boys who are failing at independent schools are asked to leave (eventually), so their results don't appear on the tally sheet.

Their results appear on the tally sheet of the local comp or at some other non-selective fee-paying school, very possibly bring their average down. It's questionable whether the results really belong to the new school. Aren't they substantially rightfully attributable to the old school?

Very very few are asked to leave. I only remember one girl in my daughters year at Haberdashers leaving. She was not able to keep up with the work and it was a mutual decision. The best schools are very good at choosing and few have to leave later.

Also what are we calling success? I think if my children are content, have choices and have a reasonable stab at A levels and a degree and have rounded lives and hobbies that is success. The success is their own robustness and ability to deal with life and what it will throw at them.

I think state schools have to include the results of any kids the expel in their results that they publish (though I would guess not if they just persuaded the child to leave and go to another school)

Private schools don't think, and I've know several in the one year group asked to leave, notionally for minor breaches of school rules (smoking near school whilst in uniform, etc) but in reality the kids they asked to leave were all the ones whose results would have brought the school's results down (Bs and Cs mainly, rather than A/A*).

I read it that the OP can afford rivate for primary and secondary for one child, but if they had two DC they could only afford to go private fr secondary (and not primary).

Yes, this. I suppose two DC aren't really connected, but it's brought up the issue of private schools properly for the first time.

I don't think school, or certainly no school I've ever come across, brings kids to their full potential. In the same way, I don't think parents fulfil our children to their full potential.

Thank you so much. That's really what I was looking for

Actually, thank you all, your posts have been so helpful. It was something I genuinely worried about, but I think it was a bit misplaced.

If one's DC didn't get good results why would they be letting you down any more if there were at private school than state school? I don't understand that. If the child works to the best of their ability then their results are good enough. If the child doesn't work to the best of their ability and you feel they have let you down because you have paid for private school then I think your reasons for sending them are wrong.

We moved our ds from a state primary at 8 because he was very bright and very alpha. It was with a heavy heart but he needed more than his school could offer otherwise there was a risk of him going off the rails. We will of course never know what would have happened if we hadn't moved him.