Anyone else going through a Secondary School Appeal or can offer Tips??

[bringbacksideburns]

My daughter got none of her three choices - we don't know anyone in this particular predicament, as most seem to get at least second or third choice. We do know people who have fought and won Appeals but i wondered if anyone else could use this thread for some much needed support?

We are in a Rock and a hard place - our choices were the excellent all girls school i went to, oversubscribed and in the catchment area,the excellent Catholic school a ten minute walk away and a good school some distance away but still in the area. We didn't put the Catholic one first as everyone told us we wouldn't get in as not Catholic so we reasoned we would have no trouble getting in the All girls one.
Usually most kids go to the local (poor) academy from her school but every year there are a handful who go to the all girls and the all boys my son attends. There are usually no problems and no appeals - last year four girls were all accepted - one, a friend's daughter, lives further away from us. The year before that a couple got in, again one further way than us. The absolute shock on seeing the email was horrible.
They have offered us the poor academy that we didn't even go to see. My husband went there for an Open evening when it was my son's turn - it is headed by the former Headteacher of a failing school and that was shut when the new one opened. He said all that was talked about was how many millions the Sports Dept had spent on it. They have the lowest pass rate in the county.

What is really motivating me is the way my daughter responded when we told her where she was offered - i have never seen her so upset, sobbing etc. Even the fact all her friends are going to the other school doesn't seem to cheer her up. Infact she says she hates the other school and it is full of Bullies. She is determined she will not go so that is why i am appealing for the girls school and the nearby Catholic one. I have friends who live some distance away who are catholic who got in but i can't and live on the doorstep, yet i can't get in the other one for being too far away yet it was fine for others last year - sod's law.

I have been copying and pasting like a madwoman to prepare and just read on the Mumsnet bit that you should focus on why the other school is suitable and not slag off the one you have been offered. I also know i need to do a lot of research on class sizes etc from last year.

Any other tips?

Thanks tiggytape, that's exactly how I did phrase it: how many in current year 7, how many in year 8 etc and I'm afraid she wouldn't deviate from the PAN of 210. Am beside myself with worry and absolutely livid that we are unable to visit the school she has been assigned.

Is there a medical reason that it would be better for your daughter to attend one of the 3 nearest schools?

One thing people might find useful is that making an appeal won't bump you further up a waiting list. You either win and get a place or you lose and stay where you are. Didn't realise this until I had read the appeal document fully.

Twintery: if that question is to me(!!!) then nope - she's very bright (top sets for everything - although not so good at French !) but she's just your usual 10-year-old; likes sport etc. No medical grounds at all but thanks for suggestion. Keep 'em coming!

Tiggytape, thanks again. Am finding myself hitting brick wall after brick wall when questioning both schools and council. Anyone would think they just want me to put up and shut up!!!!

Yes, the question was to you!
We appealed for one of ours on medical grounds, and got in. I was surprised at how willing out gp was to back us up. The LA dont seem to actively go against reasonable medical advice as they say that they are not medical themselves.

Do you know if there are lots more parents in your position for any of the 3 schools?
For another child of ours, she got in becuase there was a bigger influx in her year, and the school decided early on in the process to have 8 classes instead of the usual 7, hence a PAN of 240 instead of 210 for that year only.

There are hundreds of parents in our boat. As I said the new catchment measurement has stuffed things royally for Kingston borough parents. On one of the lists we're 115th, on another we're 75th. On one we WERE 18th but are now 24th as more Catholics have gone on to that waiting list so as non-Catholics we've moved down.

Twintery: the only medical thing I can think of is that she's allergic to boys!!!! :-)

! Shame that wont do!

If there are loads of parents in the same predicament, you need to band together.
And get the local media involved.

ok, didnt know that. Dont live near Kingston!

LOL - was a little worried that someone might get offended by last post - glad you took it in the spirit it was intended!

Have already posted an appeal on Facebook to see if anyone wants to join forces. Have found documentation dating back to 2008 that shows the council knew about the chronic lack of secondary school places and, most interestingly, predicted that this would happen THIS YEAR and yet still implemented the straight line measurement which has taken places from Kingston. Don't think it'll help me much but can't sit and do nothing!

Tiggytape: EXACTLY! I couldn't have put it better myself!

FYI private school is not an option for us. My husband and I have been through 4 redundancies in the past five years and are not in a position to pay the extortionate fees. Looked into bursaries and scholarships and, although DD is bright, she's not exceptional enough and we haven't been able to afford the tennis club, hockey or netball fees or music lessons which would enable her to get in on a sport or music scholarship anyway. Also it's very rare to get a full scholarship anyway - at most you seem to be looking at about 25% off...not enough for us.

Hi Boothy2 do you have any religious (or other strong social reason for choosing a girls school)? I do know of parents who have chosen girls schools for religious reasons and it may strengthen your case. The other thing to look at is the type of activities offered by a girls school. Earlier you say that your dd is interested in sport and the type of sports offered at a girls school may be different. Are there any facilities e.g. dance studio, tennis courts that are only available at that particular school? Are there are particular subjects on the curriculum e.g. textiles or Catering that are not offered at other schools?
Hope that helps

I do know of parents who have chosen girls schools for religious reasons and it may strengthen your case

The panel is only interested in the prejudice to the child. Parents not wanting a school on religious grounds rarely translates into prejudice to the child. By all means mention it (provided it is true) but don't rely on that to win your case.

Can anyone suggest how important bullying is on appealing for a school.

My son has been bullied for 6 years and we are getting professional help with the emotional problems he has been left with. We live on the same street as the bullies who will be attending the local school (that we have been offered). I am appealing to two schools slightly further afield so that he can make a fresh start, make new friends and not have to walk/bus home with the bullies. Does this sound good as an argument. Is there anything further/powerful I can back this up with?

The problem with the bullying argument is that it is about why your son shouldn't be at the offered school. It isn't about why he needs to go to the appeal school. Any school other than the local school would, in theory, do. And if the local school has effective measures for dealing with bullying they may be able to stop the problems.

Having said that, there is no harm putting this as part of your case. You will need to provide evidence of bullying. Unfortunately it is the kind of thing some parents make up in an attempt to strengthen their case so panels have to be careful with such claims.

Thanks for that prh. I do have bullying evidence going back a few years. I am re-visiting the offered school tomorrow to see what they can/can't do in terms of protecting DS from the bullies that are potentially moving over with him.

I accept the argument that he could potentially go to another school besides the preferred one and I will have to think that over in more detail.

I have other elements to the arguments for the preferred schools.

Thanks for now.

Hi there. I'm new to mumsnet but have just come accross this thread and if it's not too late would like to offer some advice. I was in the same situation with my daughter a few years ago (i.e. never got any of my three choices and was allocated an absolutely horrendous/failing school). I would agree with many previous postings which is that your appeal should concentrate on why the school you are appealing for is the one for your child, rather than why the allocated school is not. I actually did two appeals, for my first and second choices and there is no reason why you can't - actually, both appeals pretty much mirrored each other. My initial thought when I started the appeal process was what makes our case different from anyone else's - after all, we all want our first choice of school, so obviously your reasons for winning your appeal must be pretty compelling. I did get some excellent advice from a man called John Chard who specialises in this area and the first thing he told me to find out was the information from the school about numbers of pupils admitted for the previous 3 years. With the responses I received back he quickly worked out that my first choice of school was actually offering around 11 places less annually than the number set by the government. Most schools will put forward the argument of overcrowding and how offering a place to your child would be detrimental. To counter this, I would say that if overcrowding has not been mentioned in previous Ofsted inspections, then it would suggest that this was not this an issue for the Ofsted inspector. If your child has a particular interest in science for example, does the school you have selected offer triple science. What is the school's specialism - can you prove that your child has a particular interest in this? Can you prove this with copies of your child's school reports? Does the school have a policy of phasing new children in with separate common rooms or break times? If it does and your child lacks confidence, then this might be a strong reason for your selection. Back everything up with evidence. As part of the appeal process you will be invited to a meeting, probably at the civic centre, where the school will present to all parents who are appealing, their reasons why they cannot possible admit extra children. The appeal panel will also attend this session. I strongly advise you to note down each and every point the school raises, including answers to any questions raised. These are the points you MUST contradict during your appeal. We actually lost our first appeal and the letter informing us of this basically set out the schools argument as raised at the appeal meeting and I realised that I hadn't quite realised the significance of that session. However, it did mean that I was well armed when we repeated the process at the second appeal. On that occasion the school stated that they had an above average number of disabled children and therefore the corridors need to be kept as clear as possible and must not be overcrowded. I was able to ask how many disabled children were wheelchair users and the exact number of disabled children admitted for that particular year (none). The school also stated that they had plans to increase their sixth form and therefore did not have space for more children. Obviously, here the school had contradicted themselves by discussing plans to increase numbers, when there was no extra space available. When we sat in front of the appeal panel they had received our papers in advance but remember they are hearing quite a lot of appeals and may only have scanned through yours. Make absolutely certain that you raise at this meeting your salient points - bring a list in with you to make sure you have covered everything, you will kick yourself after if you forget to mention something.These are just little pointers, but might help to get you 'thinking outside the box'. We did win our second appeal - if it helps, we are based in Enfield. Good luck!

Thank you ificouldiwould. Really helpful.
Can I ask you what your appeal was based on?

Have read through the school's reasons why they can't take another child; basically school is full and has no space in the year. Although a few years ago it changed status and increased its intake for years 7 -8 by 50%. However, they are planning to build over the next few years to increase capacity. How could that help me now?

Just seems that trying to counter argue lack of space in front of the head of the school is quite a task - it's going to be very hard to sway the panel when the school have presented a watertight statement (based on sq metres per pupil, old building so small corridors etc)