How to ask for more challenging work?

[dalziel1]

DS is in year 7 at an outstanding comprehensive. He says he isn't really being challenged in any of subjects like English, maths, science, MFL, geography, history, ICT etc but the ones which are streamed (or is it setted?) are better than those where he's in a mixed ability class.

The teachers do differentiate but DS rarely has to put much effort in even for the most challenging objectives.

Other parents tell me that their children are averaging three hours homework per night, whereas DS maybe does an hour per week (but he still does everything - I check).

The problem is that he's getting bored in class and it makes him feel frustrated when things get repeated over and over. Out of school, he's not bothered at all if there is no challenging work for him as it just means more time doing the things he enjoys. So, the answer is not to leave him to decide whether he fancies doing a bit of extra work at home on one of the websites for which the school has bought licences.

I know I should bring this up with the school, but my question is how do I do this without sounding a) critical that they aren't challenging him and b) like the pushy mother from hell.

They didn't study a Shakespeare play without reading a word of it. That didnt happen OP.

Umm... it did happen: the teacher confirmed it to me at parent's night. He explained that some of the children would have found the language too complex, even just to read one page.

However, Ravenak, and possibly Lottiedoubtie, you are English teachers?

So, if you both think its unlikely/ plain wouldn't have happened and yet it did happen, coupled with the two pieces of homework I've seen (i.e. design a poster and fix some basic spelling) then it does make it likely that DS is right about not being challenged?

Which would take me back to my original question: how can I go out about approaching the school to get more challenging work set for DS. He would benefit from this generally (his POV), but he especially needs it in English??

I hate reading Shakespeare, too. I wouldn't think it impossible they didn't read any original. But did they read nothing else since September?

DD's y7 set in English read Boy Overboard in autumn term, along with The Speckled Band (Conan Doyle), and some original Grimms Fairy Tales this term. I imagine even the lowest sets read some other texts.

They read one book in the Autumn term (was supposed to be two but they ran out of time for the second).
Currently they are "doing" the Shakespeare play.

Next up, will be poetry (as yet unspecified).

I'm a teacher in a subject similar to English but not actual English.

I once introduced a shakespeare play entirely without using the text. That was week one and all pupils learnt the plot. In weeks 2-6 we of course, used extracts of the play. If I taught English to year 7 I would expect them to read all of a shortish abridged version.

If it definitely happened and the teacher has confirmed OP I would consider going to discuss it with either your child's head of year or the head of English.

OP the sad fact is that some high abilkity DC will find the school curriculum, even in top set, unchallenging.

Some people will say too bad. Some people will say your son should be happy he finds it all so easily. Some will say their highly able DC just adore fannying about waiting fior the others.

But none of that will help your son.

Are there any selective schools in your area?

Yes, there are many, many selective schools about. One of them is state run and the others are all in the independent sector.

The independent ones are all way beyond what we could afford, even if we did qualify for a 10%/or 25% discount (if they offered 75%, then maybe we could manage it!).

The state one, where entry is ultra-competitive - is 20 miles away, although I've heard that children travel there from up to 50 miles away. With hindsight, we should have got DS tutored in year 5, taken the entrance exam and tried to get him in there.

DH argued at the time with me about this. I just didn't realise how intelligent DS actually is until about this time last year when he did some IQ tests. Since then, he seems to have more confidence and his work has gone from quite good to really, really good.

I am finding it hard, even now, to fathom that an outstanding secondary, one which people move to our town just so that they can send their kids there, isn't meeting DS's needs.

dalziel the problem is that in order for high ability pupils to get the best out of their education you need a critical mass of like ability peers IMVHO.

And getting that in a comprehensive is difficult if your DC fall outside the main ability spread where 80% sit.

I have to agree with wordfactory. Which is precisely why, despite all the ideological arguments thrown around, our ds1 has chosen to attend a superselective grammar and it is because of the many issues raised in the thread that we have wholeheartedly supported him.

Would agree with Wordfactory ...my dd just happened to be in an intake of very bright children where there are so many of them that they have raised the teaching bar in Maths/ICT and Science (linked subjects) ...although in stating this there are subjects that are not set and will not be set until Yr 9 where its mixed ability and my dd is being asked to help others (like music where some children have studied the subject at all or very little).

I think with English you can perhaps encourage him to read good newspapers etc and increase his vocabulary ...with regards to Shakespeare its obviously part of Yr 7 course because my DD also had her first introduction to his works - she did say that she struggled with it but I'm not sure why ...

I know dds Maths teacher stated that with the bright children its just a case of filling in the gaps where there knowledge (so far) may not have covered certain aspects ....

I know my dd loves the Maths Mango High site - I get the impression the children compete with each other

OP, if independent isn't an option (am assuming you're out of bursary range from what you've said), then could you call the selective state option and have a chat with admissions?

It's highly unlikely there would be a place - but you never know do you?

If that's a non runner then there's no point beating yourself up. You will have to work out strategies for educating your son, working around what his school can and will offer.

OP, what about a scholarship ? My parents could not have afforded full fees but they could afford it with the 75% scholarship I was awarded.
Have a look round at what your local schools offer; I went to a public school and some of the scholars were on 100% awards

i'm going to argue with the people that say that your DS should be happy with his achievements and accept the situation.

It's in incredibly frustrating being far ahead of your peers and sitting there waiting for everyone else to catch up - particularly in a subject you enjoy. I did my A levels in 1994, I have always been good at languages and picked up grammar/vocabulary very quickly and easily. Sitting through classes where the teacher is exhaustively going over something you picked up on the first explanation is aggravating and can lead to intolerance of other people's intellectual capacities.

I note that you don't want to appear "like the pushy mother..".

Think of it as being an advocate for your son. You are not a primary parent fretting about book levels. Do what you can and please don't worry about other people's perceptions.

i've just realised i left half of what I wanted to say off ! So my post doesnt' make sense. What I meant to say was

I did my A levels in 1994 so maybe teaching methods are different now and more able pupils are given work to get on with while the slower ones catch up

I would suggest contacting the school and arranging a meeting with a member of SMT and SENCO. Being able is also a special need and the school are duty bound to provide for the very able.

As to English it does sound strange. Our Year 7 top sets ( we set from entry in core subjects) have studied 'Nation', 'A Christmas Carol' and 'The Tempest' so far and each text has to result in an extended essay testing reading, an extended piece of original writing and a spoken language assessment. For example 'How does Shakespeare use language to create magical characters in 'The Tempest' with a focus on Act One Scene 2?'. Able Year 7's tend to enjoy such tasks and the improvement in their ability to write an 'academic' essay seems to give them great satisfaction.

I don't think our provision is at all unusual. They are now starting a unit on Blake's poetry, then writing non-fiction and finally a media unit looking at the gothic genre using 'The Corpse Bride' and 'The Others'. In addition to this we have quite challenging homework projects every two weeks, for example the current one is to respond to the poem 'The Clown Punk'. Going by previous projects I will get films/ photographic montages/ music/ animations as well as detailed analytical essays.

It might be worth going on local schools' websites to see examples of their provision. I would also suggest you ask to discuss your DS's exercise book/homework book. FYI our able Year 7's generally get through an A4 exercise book a term.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the advice. One of the problems is that there isn't an English top set yet (Year 8 is when it starts). So until then DS is taught with the rest of his mixed ability form.
There is one child who was with DS in primary school and she struggled to get level 3s in the SATS last year. (I think she got 2s actually). DS is becoming really fed up listening to slow explanations that are delivered on a whole class basis, but he belives are solely for her benefit.

I know he's probably wrong about that, but its not helping that his compassion has been used up and he's onto sheer irritation now.

Sorry, what is SMT?

Senior management team.

In a large school you'll unlikely get them to attend the first meeting, I'd go for head of year first.

"I don't think our provision is at all unusual. "

I don't think it is necessarily normal, either, though. I've checked with dd, and the only book they have worked on so far in yr 7 (top set) is Roald Dahl's Boy. Having said that, she really enjoys her English lessons, and seems to get a lot out of them, so it isn't all about the texts used. So for example they've done lots of writing in different styles (autobiography, formal letter, etc etc) spinning off of the book.

Its not a great answer those who say selective / independent (we were even told by the Ed Psych that 'its true, children like yourdd are often happer in the independent sector') if there are no selective or independent schools within reach - nearest independent to here is over an hour's drive, even ignoring affordability.

Emma I relaise that selective schools in either sector are not available to most people.

But it's always worth asking a poster. We don't know where they live afterall.

Once it's ascertained that these aren't available, then, as I say, it's not wotrth a parent beating themselves up. Other avenues need to be explored.

Fair play, wordfactory, it's definitely worth raising. I think I'm just a bit irritated following conversation with EP - she knows its not an option, I know its not an option, so actually what is needed of dd is an answer within the state comprehensive system.

(DD's main issue is unhappiness - I don't care about her being 'stretched', but having work wildly out of your ability range does lead to boredom/disaffection regardless of whether it is too hard or too easy. As a poster said above, you can do all the fun maths you like in your own time, but that can leave an awful lot of class time to sit through staring out the window.)

sorry, dd

It's easy to say that your DS needs to analyse texts at a deeper level to maximise his acheivements and keep his interest. However even able pupils need to be shown how to do this and be scaffolded in their learning. You can be bright, but not know where to start or what a good essay would look like.

I'd start by talking to subject teachers or HOY.

I agree that you need a critical mass of bright pupils.

I would go so far as to say that English is one of the subjects where a critical mass is imperative!

Discussing texts should be a collegiate affair. And you need plenty of people in the room analyzing them to the same depth for the best outcome IMVHO.