Choosing Subjects for National 5s (Scotland)

[soontobeslendergirl]

I know it is still nearly a year away, but we have just had parents meetings so it's a bit at the front of our minds at the moment.

No1 son is due to start 3rd year after Easter and will be choosing his subjects for National 5 next December/January.

He is very quiet but academically able in all subjects. He likes everything except Social Subjects (Geography, History and Modern Studies). Given his obsession with Lego and Minecraft, and his abilities in Maths, tech and Physics, we were all thinking along the lines of Engineering. He is however very good in English and likes anything to do with Computers and a late meeting yesterday with the Art teacher reveals that he is "very talented" and she would love to see him continue (he also loves Art).

So, given that he can only choose 7 subjects, it's all getting very tight. By looking at last years options forms English and Maths are compulsory (that's fine) and also one of the columns only gives and option of one of the Social subjects (not fine in his opinion). Giving him only 4 subjects left to choose. Out of those he'd like to do Physics, Chemistry, Engineering Science, Computing Science, Graphic Communications, Art & Design and feels he should probably continue a language. There will be lots of combinations that are simply not possible given the structure of the timetable.

The Art teacher was suggesting that he go into Architecture or Product design which would combine the artistic qualities with his mathematical skills. I think we are less sure of his employment prospects with those types of qualifications.

It's really hard to know how to guide them isn't it? He is showing no clear opinions himself, he tends to be overly compliant which makes it hard to know whether you are guiding him to what you think is better from your own point of view or what would make him happier. Garrrgghhh!!!

What is everyone else thinking with their own upcoming childrens choices or what would you think you would choose given the above circumstances.

I know we are lucky btw that he is a good all rounder, but it does make it harder to narrow it all down.

In Highlands they are sticking rigidly to Bge for the first 3 years.
In S3 its 10 subjects. Then 6 for S4. Teachers have been told by LA they aren't allowed to start teaching National 5 until 4 year.
It really limits choice and I'm deeply unhappy about it. I've written to the Scottish Government about it but they believe this curriculum is fantastic and it's not .
Teachers are tearing their hair out with all the changes coming from SQA . And if it goes its up teachers will get the blame

What I can't understand is, if you choose your N5s in 3rd year to study in 4th year. How can you possibly cover the course work? Keeping in mind prelims could be held prior to the Christmas holidays. Am I missing something?

Megrim - I know the head teacher at ds' school is proud of the fact that they still allow the option to do all three sciences. It is probably at the cost of ensuring that all students follow the BGE in S3.

I suppose their argument is that although they have the right to follow the BGE in S3 - and, in making their choices, are able to do so - they don't have to.

Good point prettybird .

I guess if you consider that the jump from Nat 4 to 5 isn't too big (i think!) then the school is hoping that they should be at National 4 level at the end of 3rd year so it should be achievable? Prelims are not of very great importance any more as there is no appeal based on them.
I have something somewhere that tells you how many hours of teaching are in a National 5 course - I'll see if I can dig it out.

They can only do it in one year if the subject numbers go down hence only choosing six.
All qualifications in 4th year and up are meant to be 1 year long supposedly to allow pupils to pick up subjects again further up the school.
What they have totally ignored is that Scottish universities want all the Highers done in one sitting.

Hmm, but then they would have to had demonstrated N4 levels in all subjects prior to the choosing in S4. Seems like a heck of a lot of admin for subject choices that would not be taken. < giving myself a headache>

intheround, you are correct in that there is only enough time to teach 6 subjects in the school year if they choose to do them over one year. Our school has chosen to "steal" a little time of the end of the BGE phase in order to squeeze in enough teaching hours to add in a 7th. Some schools are stealing a lot more and are adding an 8th but are also having to keep PE and RME which for most schools will finish as a compulsory subject at the end of S3

kaumana - the reasoning being for marking them at Nat 4 is so that for students who choose not to take forward music or a language for example will still have a qualification in it that they can use to show that they have a "breadth" in their education, which is what our head is saying that they are looking for

Kaumana - because the Aberdeen schools are sticking to only doing Nat 5s in S4, that's why we are limited to 6 subjects. Prelims were in January. All the coursework is scheduled to be finished by the Easter break, plus I think there is some revision time in there too. I think DS has been assessed at Nat 4 level in all 6 subjects already?

We're just going with the flow, DS knows what he's good at and what he'd like to for Highers and at Uni, so I'm not that concerned about him only doing 6 subjects at Nat 5. I got 12 O levels, but as soon as I sat A levels they become much less important, and by the time I finished Uni they were pretty much irrelevant.

Thanks for explaining. Tend to agree with you that N4 will be ignored in regards to further exams taken.

Megrim, i think the issue for me with narrowing down to 6 is for the ones that aren't sure yet what they want to do - with only 6 they are effectively choosing their Highers in S3 as there will be very few things they will be able to pick up without having done the National 5 in it, regardless of whether they have a Nat4. If they are already fairly clear, I agree with you that it wont matter how many they have by the time they have their Highers/nat6s

Intheround - Scottish Uni's have issued statements about how many Highers need to be done in a single sitting. There is some degree of flexibility, for instance considering Highers gained in S4 and S5 to count as a single sitting. You need to take a look at the individual statements.

Our school is only offering Highers in exceptional cases at s4. A handful of children only.

I've never heard of ours offering Highers in S4 - I suspect that given that they are sitting in the top 10 state schools for results probably means they wont want to. Then there is a risk that the grade will be lower and affect the stats and you also don't have that (presumably bright) student contributing to the scores for the 4th year exams - it's all about the stats dontcha know!

They are currently wetting themselves as No2 son's year is 2 thirds boys - that could affect their exams stats as girls are scoring more highly.

My DD is sitting 8 Nat 5s in May. We're in Fife, but the numbers of Nat 5s varies from school to school. Studying for 8 Nat 5s is proving a big task!

I believe the next year group is only doing 7.

Our school has been doing Highers in S4 for some years and will offer a mix of N4/5/ Higher in S4. Pupils will sit 6 subjects at an appropriate level. But, the admin and delivery of the new exams is a shambles and parents should be up in arms.

It is possible to have course choice in s2, move to 8 subjects and still follow the principles of a bge. In my subject we use the outcomes to introduce n4/5 work/ level of challenge within the bge thus teaching the core skills students require to pass nat4/5. Halfway through s3 nat4/5 "officially" starts. So students manage to do 8 subjects by the end of s4.

Soontobe - our school is also in the top ten state schools in Scotland, and the school has always been very selective on who sits which exams to keep the stats up. DS was asked if he wanted to go straight to Geography Higher in S4, but he decided for himself that he would rather do Nat 5 first, and Higher in S5. It's usually subjects like music, art, languages and possibly maths where the Higher may be offered in S4.

Roseforme, as a parent we are not privy to the inner workings of SQA and schools though. I only hear of the problems with exam delivery via chat on the Internet! The news reports have always sounded rather positive towards CfE.

The overall plan for Senior Phase (or rather the random nature of Local Council and individual schools approach to it and exams) has seemed wrong-headed from the beginning.

Hi, wonder if anyone has any advice regards choosing subjects in S2. My daughter has chosen has subjects (North Lanarkshire high school) but hasn't chosen a subject from one column and the school are insisting she does. Does anyone have any experience of this? Is it possible to not choose from one column (my daughter wants to choose music & PE, school are saying she MUST choose from column which is technical/home economic/IT type subjects and drop either music or PE). Just had S2 report - brilliant in all subjects - no issues with behaviour/attendance/homework/ability so I hoped the school would be accommodating (particularly with music as she is currently working on N4 music pieces - she plays outside school and is very sporty - plays ladies hockey). Thanks.

We have been hearing (from teachers) that the new Nat5s are harder than Standard grades. Is this your experience?

Not experienced it yet, but I guess the issue is teacher availability at that time on the timetable. Also it could be because they need to still fulfil the conditions of the BGE as she is still only going into 3rd year?

We will have the same issue next year when my son has to choose one of the social subjects when he hates them all.

I guess you can challenge but there may be very little they are able to offer at that time on the timetable.

As far as I am aware, the timetabling works on the columns so it really is a simple choice of one per column. Ds' school had a few subjects in more than one column to give more flexibility. Music is only in one column but Art & Design was in two (so, for example you could choose Art & Design and Music), as are Physics, Chemistry, French.....

Is the Nat 5 not meant to be equivalent to the Credit level of the old Standard Grade whereas level 4 is closer to the Foundation level?