Told to ignore the 48 hour rule for D&V?

[CouthyMow]

My Y7 DS1's attendance is abysmal this year, due to having had flu in December, he was off for two full weeks with it - I got a written warning for that from the EWO as it pushed his attendance below 90%, and my GP refused to write a medical note without me paying £25 that I can't afford, as I'm on benefits and am already paying £40 a week to get my oldest two DC's to school.

My 3yo DS3 brought a particularly nasty tummy bug home from preschool, which has lasted a week for each of us that have had it - vomiting for 4 days, every time you eat, and then diarrhoea for 3 days after. You are in no fit state to leave the house tbh!

DS1 has been off all last week with it, and on the first day, when he threw up, he was so anxious that he was arguing that he needed
to attend school even as he was vomiting.

It turned out that he had been given a 'stern talking to' about his attendance from his HoY, and he was so concerned that he was tearful.

I contacted the school, and told them that they were making my DS1 anxious about his attendance, and that it is unfair to put so much pressure on DC's that have been genuinely ill. I have insisted that any further issues to do with attendance should be directed to me, as I am the person deciding whether he is well enough for school or not, and the level of anxiety they are causing my DS1 is unreasonable.

I then told them that he would be in when he had been 48 hours from the last incidence of D&V. They the. Told me, in no uncertain terms, that they do NOT want children away from school for 48 hours, and he should be sent to school as soon as he has stopped vomiting, EVEN if he still feels sick.

And they have said that if he is off for ANYTHING else this school year, I will be expected to provide a doctor's note.

But the GP refused to SEE DS1 for the D&V, as he was keeping water down, and diyoralyte, so therefore wasn't dehydrated, he just couldn't keep food down (or in...)

The school said to send him in, even if he feels like he will be sick, and if he's sick, they will send him home. The issue with that is that I cannot drive, and DS1 travels quite a long journey to school (moved right across the large town AFTER secondary allocations, no choice where I was moved to as Social Housing). He would have a 10 minute walk from the school to the bus stop, a 45 minute bus ride, and then a 15 minute walk to get home. How can he manage that if he has vomited at school?!

I DON'T keep my DC's off school for spurious reasons, for Y7, Y8 and Y9 my DD had 100% attendance. DS1 had lower attendance last year too - but that was because he had acute appendicitis and had an appendectomy, and had to recover from the surgery.

If I can't get a GP's appointment, I can't afford £25 for a doctors note, and the school keep saying to send him in even if he is likely to vomit, they will just 'send him home', what do I do about the EWO?

Why are the school (Now an Academy) allowed to tell parents to ignore the basic H&S requirement of 48 hours off after the last incidence of D&V?!

And why also are they allowed to insist upon doctors notes for every period of illness, when the doctor's note will cost £25?

Neither of these things are pointed out on their website or in their prospectus, and as I have a DC in Y11 at the same school, I can assure you that these policies have NOT been in place until the start of this school year. We weren't told of the change in policy, either as prospective parents of pupils joining Y7 OR as parents of existing pupils in higher year groups.

Ok, you need to contact nice - who advise in the 48 hour rule and your local mp.
Also, write to the b of gov at the school.
This is ridiculous.
I am terrified of what schools in this country are turning into.

Me too Badvoc.

Our upper school don't implement the 48 hour rule either. That's not unusual

Thumb gp is well within rights. Sick notes are for those who work or sign on they are not for schools. There is an agreement between DoH and DoE that they are not needed school is being a pest blame them not everyone else they are trying to get to do more work.

EWOs are desperately under funded here. I can't imagine they will be in the least happy chasing DCs who are genuinely unwell.

I'd let the school steam. (DD2's attendence has caused huffy notes for the last two years, for perfectly good reasons).

Awful. Write to school, cc to governors & LEA. Stress how you feel it is detrimental to be forced out when ill. Might also be worth pointing out that within the wider school community & their families there will be people who will be affected severely by v&d & it is therefore grossly irresponsible to suggest a contagious child HAS to attend school.

Definitely copy to the LEA as some of this madness might be coming in the form of pressure from them.

Maybe cc Gove as well - as it's this govts obsession with assessing schools on this sort of measure which leads to this madness (ds1 attends a special school, a lot of the kids have limited lifespans/severe epilepsy etc & do miss school due to their health - the school is expected to get the same attendance figures as local mainstream schools).

I am horrified they are harrassing a child who was genuinely ill.
Op...can you get a local paper/radio station interested?

Looking at it impassively from the schools POV 2 weeks of in the 1st term with flu is automatically going to bring his attendance down to 80% (number changed to protect the mathematically challenged ie me... but a term is approx 10 weeks).

Attendance of 80% is a level that seriously impacts on a child education, especially in the early part of a new school.

We are now 6 weeks into the new term so your DS has had another week off? Again amending for simple maths - that's another 80% attendance record, now for the first HALF of year 7. Even if he never has another day off he's got attendance of only 90% for the year. Averattendance at my kids schools is 97-98%

Yes he's been unlucky re minor illness, but the school are not wrong in pursuing it I'm afraid. They don't know you/have no track record with you/your child. You could be one of those parents who just doesn't bother, they con't know as they've had your DS 16 weeks and he's been ill for 3 of them ( If they'd had him in school 3yrs and he suddenly had a bad run like this they'd know he was never normally ill - does that make sense?).

So try not to take it personally.

I'm meh about the 48hr rule for senior school kids. Some schools keep it others don't. THere was no way I could keep DS (6th form) off after he had a day vomiting. He wanted/needed to be in school for A level work (and like adults washes/uses hand gel etc and isn't all over other kids like primary school ones are!)

It is not a GP role to police minor illness, what ever schools/LA say.

My ds2 is in reception.
He has been off now for 7 days with a nasty virus. Been to gp. Nothing they can do other than eye drops for the conjunctivitis.
He is ill. Ergo he is at home.

OP- do the school know all about your circumstances? If not, then they can't make allowances. I would set them out clearly and in full and send it to the Head and the Chair of governors. On the surface your ds has a worrying attendance record, and the school can't turn a blind eye to it, for his sake and theirs. You need to be communicating with them.

Thing is, they DO know me, my DD is in Y11 there, and until this year, she has had 100% attendance for Y10, Y9 and Y8, and 99% attendance in Y7...

So it's NOT that the school don't know I'm a 'committed parent'. I attend numerous meetings at the school due to my Dd's SN's, and know the majority of the staff there, as my DD has been there for almost 5 years...

My Dd1 currently has an 89% attendance record. :( This is because she has had a lot of consultant appointments at hospital and that has necessarily resulted in days off school. In addition her IS has been compromised because of medication she is on so she's had a bit of time off for the usual colds coughs etc which she would normally have struggled through - but this year they have hit her harder. And she's had some time off for unusual stuff related to her medication - apocalyptic nosebleeds (which is a family thing but has been exacerbated by her medication). DD2 also has, I think, a poor attendance record because she catches everything going and her school has a habit of sending her home when she is sick - or even looking extra peaky - mainly I think because they are still overreacting to the slightest thing with her having not reacted last year and seen her end up blue lighted to hospital. This does worry me. But neither school have made a fuss, in fact both have been extremely supportive. DS hasn't missed a day of school this school year (but he is still 'working off' the 12 weeks he missed with whooping cough two years ago).

It seems bizarre to me that some schools can be so .....unhelpful, eg Couthy's school, and some can be so supportive. There really should be consistency. If either of my DDs was at Couthy's DS's school, I'd definitely not want him going in infecting them with winter vom - that is the LAST thing they need (especially Dd2 who is quite under weight anyway and the last time she had winter vom - 14 months ago - became very badly ill and took almost 9 months to gain back the weight she'd lost).

Couthy perhaps you should ask for a meeting with the head?

And yes, the school are WELL aware of my circumstances, because they tried to get the LA to arrange transport when I had to move, as I'm one over 3 miles away. LA refused transport because they have added an 'extra' condition to qualifying for transport costs, that the school must be over 3 miles away AND the closest school, even if the closest school DOESN'T HAVE A PLACE THEY WONT FUND THE TRANSPORT...

So the school are fully aware of ALL the situations.

I had a meeting with his HoY recently due to him having had the flu, taking his attendance down to 88%...

This is why I am very uncertain whether I am going to send immunocompromised DS2, who also has physical disabilities to this school now, even though he gets automatic entry.

Because of multiple consultant and Physio appointments, plus his general ill health, his attendance has never been above 87%. In his worst year, in Reception, his attendance was just 69%.

(We make up the work at home when he is better, he is on target with reading and literacy, ahead of targets in Maths)

DS1 is categorically NOT falling behind with his work - if he has been off ill, he talks to his friends to find out what they have been studying and catches up, by himself, with no input from me. He is currently working on level 7/8 Maths in Y7, and level 6 English and Science, he has taken well to German, and is ahead in EVERY lesson, in top sets and not falling behind.

He is very driven...

So if he is not falling behind, catches up with the work he has missed off his own back, and is genuinely ILL, I just can't see an issue with whatever arbitrary figure his attendance is at.

I could understand it if he didn't bother to catch up on missed work, if he didn't put any effort in, if he was just 'skiving', but he is so far ahead of his targets that I can't see the problem tbh. If he's too ill for school, then he's too ill for school!!

Children absolutely should not be in school with D+V. As well as your child they need to protect other potentially vulnerable students and staff who may be particularly at risk due to other medical problems. Please report the school to your local health protection agency.

If he's ill, he's ill. As a teacher and parent, I'd be livid at pupils going into school with D&V , especially on the advice of the HOY! Can you get any other parents/teachers on your side to fight your corner a bit?

I've really had enough of reading these stories. Just who do schools think they are these days?

DS2(17) had to have an operation in January to fix a shoulder he broke and dislocated at school. I was told to write in and ask permission for the time off! I didn't, I sent a note in the day before saying DS2 would be off for the next week!

You need to write to the school, the Governors and the LEA outlining your circumstances and explaining why you just can not pander to their whims. I would, also, right now be on the phone to the Environmental Health dept at your local council telling them what the school have told you to do wrt to D&V bugs. I should imagine they would be quite interested.

CouthyMow

An extract from DfE advice on school attendance:

If the authenticity of illness is in doubt, schools can request parents to provide medical evidence to support illness. Schools can record the absence as unauthorised if not satisfied of the seriousness of the illness but should advise parents of their intention. Schools are advised not to request medical certificates unnecessarily (particularly retrospective certificates), especially if the illness was not treated by a doctor at the time. Medical evidence can take the form of prescriptions, appointment cards, etc. rather than doctors’ notes.

You should remind your school of that guidance, particularly the last two sentences. If they refuse to change their stance you should follow the school's complaints procedure.

IamInvisible

Your school is talking rubbish. Another extract from the DfE advice:

Missing registration for a medical or dental appointment is counted as an authorised absence.

That means you don't have to apply for permission. The school can legitimately encourage parents to make appointments outside school hours and insist that pupils are absent for the minimum time possible. They should not tell parents that they have to ask for permissions to take a child out of school for an operation.

Things have changed a lot since my DCs were 11 but, just out of interest, I had never heard of this 48hrs for d+v thing. We just sent them in as soon as they felt able to cope and I am not aware of major epidemics of it sweeping the schools.
I think this is probably over-cautious

www.hpa.org.uk/webc/hpawebFile/hpaweb_C/1317135814821

Above is link to HPA advise leaflet on management of d+v. Minimum of 48 hours symptom free before returning to school or work.
Lots of schools have had major outbreaks. A local primary to me was closed for a couple of days for a deep clean as it had got so bad.

it's pants. i am have had similar with dd.

our ewo will accept an appointment card as 'proof'.

one gp laughed us out the surgery, but i said, this is what i have to do, it's what they want. ie i know i shouldn't be here wasting your time with a bug, and compromising others, including my dd's health.

I have also managed to get my gp onside and they will give me a home phone call, to speak to me if dd is ill, to save time. they will fill in an appointment card over the phone, re -whatever bug she has.
I am lucky that my gp will play their game now.

OK bugsy, that's fair enough. Didn't realise that. Perhaps the GP in question is rebelling against the unnecessary request from the school too, just a shame that Couthy is caught in the middle.

Suffolk I'm not doubting you all that that is the advice, just saying I never heard of it when mine were at school and they all survived.