Careers Advice at Schools

[miteshb]

One of the purposes of education is for students to be more employable when they finish the education process. So I'm wondering:

• What are the careers advice provisions at your child's school?
• Do you think they are made aware of the multiple career options out there and the paths to reach them?
• Does the school teach enough about employability skills?
• Are you as a parent involved?

What does everyone think?

i wish i could be more encouraging , but the schools careers service is very very unhelpful. They give out leaflets in the main, and expect the student to already know what they want to do . it hasnt changed . i wish there was aonther organisationwe could turn to.

Worse than useless. Would be better to have "no" advice as the advice there is is SO limited.
Oh you like travel "why not work at the airport" errrrr
You're good at maths "be an accountant, that pays well". Seriously it is shocking.

It can't be done by schools, it needs to be outsourced to a specialist organisation. Maybe sponsored by some of the big multinationals? Jobs, careers, opportunities change constantly. Think of the jobs we do as adults now, they weren't even around in the 1980's. I thought a banker was someone behind the counter at Barclays Bank, a "buyer" was someone who did mystery shopping, market research was just clipboard ladies in the street etc... I doubt teenagers today know much more.

Its a very emotive topic and rightly so as it's very important.

tess73 - you're right more input is needed from industry and outsourced to an organisation who has time to keep information up to date and current.

can we use this forum to generate enough support for parents to actually speak to schools about changing or doing something about this?

It used to be outsourced to another organisation (Connexions) but sadly in the majority of cases that has been cut. My DM used to be a careers adviser and it always made her very upset when the service she provided was slated and then finally cut by many local authorities (luckily for her she was in a position to take early retirement).

Sadly it seems that in the majority of schools teachers are now forced to take on yet another role that they have little time to provide due to an already over stretched timetable. Who knows when Gove is going to realise that...

I'm another ex Connexions adviser and as pp above, I'm devastated by the cuts to careers guidance in schools and the impact on my profession. Gove has no interest in the provision of impartial careers advice for young people and has passed responsibility over to schools who don't want to pay for it (or can't due to other budgetary cuts).

I really feel for young people having to make increasingly complex choices and potentially taking expensive courses without weighing up all the options available. Careers guidance is very different from just providing careers information and it does really need to be impartial to be effective.

So, as parents if you do feel your child is leaving school with very little in the way of careers advice this may explain why. As Careers Advisers we do want to provide it, but there is no money or current government interest in funding a dedicated and well resourced careers service.

You would have thought that with youth unemployment around 20% careers guidance would be a priority but clearly not. Luckily adult careers service is still just about keeping going at the moment.

Can the parents lobby to make things better?

Yes you would think it would be a big priority umbrellahead given the number of youth unemployed. Agree adult careers services currently seem better resourced and more coherent than what is available for young people.

I really wish parents would lobby schools because I currently work in HE and it is awful to see so many young people at uni who have made uninformed choices about their degree courses and should have received good quality careers advice in school.

Schools seem very disinterested in careers advice and guidance on the whole and should be lobbying government for support with this. Quality careers advice and developing an awareness of the skills required for employment should be embedded in the school curriculum right the way through from year 7. In my experience, what pupils receive is pitiful especially if they are perceived to be more able.

There is a massive need for this and it appears to be in decline year after year. Impartial careers guidance is invaluable, back up by an effective careers education programme. Unfortunately the government does not seem to agree.

Do we need to wait for the government to do something about it?

anyone else for this debate?

It would be great to bypass the government and sort out the shambolic nature of careers advice in schools but I don't know where the funding would come from? I know many Careers Advisers who feel passionately about the provision of advice and guidance for young people but we can't work for free and the service needs proper resourcing and investment!

Careers services have always been a political football kicked around by each successive government. It is the most frustrating part of the job but the current situation is the worst it has ever been.

The best schools organise careers fairs. My DH talks about Civil, Structural and Environmental Engineering at his old school and others. He often has quite a queue at his stand and can advise on the most appropriate courses and further training required to get Chartered Enguneer status. Both the schools our DDs attended did the same and lots of parents came in from Accountants, Solicitors, Hospitality, Vets, Doctors, Journalists, TV Exectives, Artists, Engineers and quite a few others. Teachers have limited knowledge but I have found the online newspapers have quite good information, eg The Independent.

I do not know how schools can advise a student on A level choices if the student has no idea what they might want to do and the school has never raised the issue with the student. There are plenty of cases where failing to do Maths, for example, will end up being a problem. There are plenty of students though, that know they are good at a few subjects and will enjoy doing one of those at university so put off making a career choice until they are older. Many, many students did this years ago and no-one thought the worse of them for it. Science and Economics students seem to know earlier than the Arts people.

When I was at school, in the 1970s the careers advice at my Grammar School was non existent. We just found out for ourselves. That is something we should encourage. Self reliance and finding out for yourself. This sorts out the movers and shakers in my view. I do agree with better careers advice but it should be a partnership between school, parents and students to do the research.

The problem with the careers fairs and roping in parents is that many schools don't have students whose parents are vets, doctors, tv executives etc. That then leads to the problem that the events are very time consuming to put on - what with teachers being as overstretched as they are it's not surprising that they don't have the time to put on such events.

Again, with researching it yourself if you don't know what you want to do where do you start? You need someone impartial to point you in the right direction and help balance out the pros and cons of each course. It's also worth remembering that for many students they don't have (or need!) a career plan aged 15 - what needs to be encouraged is going into education or training that will open up the most doors in the future.

I did it myself with our older two, starting from about age 13.
First of all we did life skills, things like finance, banking, over drafts etc, right up to mortgages and interest rates.
We advised them and supported through options, helped them to do a cv, taught them the important things to state etc.
We just saw it as our job as parents tbh.
I don't think much of this is done in schools and whilst we could sit and argue that its the role of the state to do this, I preferred to be proactive.
It is good not to rely on others for this as you at least know your dc are well prepared to go out in the world and survive.

As another Careers Adviser joining this discussion, I definitely agree with the sentiments expressed here!

When I started in Careers, I was employed by local authorities to go into their schools, as well as seeing the unemployed on duty days, and spending a day a week with employers and training organisations. We also had specialist advisers & I enjoyed working with the more academically able as an A level specialist. Since then, the focus has been more and more on those at risk of becoming NEET. Although I understand that these young people are in need of help, I know that there are a large number of academically able young people who need help too.

How many people can honestly say that they are impartial in the decision making process? How many teachers (or parents) have the skills to draw out the deepest interests of a young person and to present all their options, cutting through vested interests and limited horizons?

Websites and careers fairs are all very well for information, and for sparking interest, but I've never been to one that cover all careers (and I've even organised a couple for a Hertfordshire region!)

While I accept my DD has a particularly specific & unusual career plan, I was upset that the careers person at school has tried to talk her out of it suggesting lower level training and alternative career paths.

It might have been better to check whether or not her plans were achievable rather than automatically rejecting them.

All the successful research about colleges/requirements & funding has been done by DD & I

mmm... in my day we all just got told to be accountants. I think they are better than that, now.

At DDs school they have an external careers officer who comes in. He basically told her that if she was choosing between dance and medicine, she clearly wasn't intelligent enough to be a medic. He changed his mind when he saw her grades and the suggested a dance physio. Not really the answer she was looking for.

The school actively invite parents in to talk to the children about their careers and interview techniques, which has been helpful.

It would be nice if they had an idea about the children before declaring 'childcare' as a potential career & the local 6th form college as the destination

The careers adviser should have been provided with some background information on your child by the school prior to seeing her katymac. In the schools I've worked in you usually get mock grades and/or predictions, list of those on the SN register etc.

Sounds like there may have been an information breakdown there. Could you request a chat with the school CA to find out why those options were suggested?

HSMMaCM - there is indeed a role for dance therapists although as you say this is very different route from either dance or medicine

I'm not going to make excuses Katy and HSMM, it sounds as though what your DC experienced wasn't what was needed.

It can be hard, even when provided with all the background information such as Y10/Mock GCSE grades, interest questionnaires, and anything else that is relevant to help that young person make a good decision, to get it right every time, especially if the interviews are short ones.
Some schools I have worked in over the years have given me no background information at all and in half an hour you can hardly get to know a young person!

That is one of the reasons why I decided to leave the public services, and offer an individualised guidance service in conjunction with a well-respected psychometric test. I find that involving parents in the process is helpful too.
But not everyone can afford to go private...

We just saw it as our job as parents tbh. - I agree to an extent, but what about those young people whose parents aren't in a position to offer such support? It's them that fall through the net, not kids whose parents can offer advice.

DD went in, told her what she was already doing to get into the colleges of her choice & the lady tried to persuade her out of it

I met her at parents evening & she told me that it was unlikely that she would be successful getting into college & a BTEC would be better

But this is unfair as DD is very specialised and I wouldn't expect a run of the mill 'careers adviser' to know anything much about it - However I employ youngsters who don't even know the names of some of the jobs/courses I suggest for them (play worker/BTEC in engineering/PGCE) which is sad