GCSE rate at dd's school has dropped from 65% to 41% over 4 years.

[VivaLeBeaver]

She;s in Year 8. Its been getting worse each year but I've just seen the 2013 results and they're 41% get 5 GCSES A-C inc maths and English. Previous year was about 50%.

That's quite shit isn't it?

Head and deputy head are both leaving in July. Dunno if that's good or if things will just get worse.

DD is in the top sets but I don't think she's making good progress. She was level 5 IN Year 6 and still level 5 now according to last term's report.

Havant. No it is not hard for a grammar to get a good VA scores, well above 1000. All the grammars in my area have. I have just checked. Don't forget the tutored ones may not be as bright as they first appear and the 11+ is VR so not based on the NC so there is often room for improvement.

Viva. Are the better comps actually full in the year group you want? I do agree you do not want to boomerang between schools as this is extremely disruptive too but, for an alleged comprehensive school, the results are poor. Are there any other parents who care enough, like you, to lobby the Governors for improvements? Usually a group of parents can find out what is going on. The Governors should tell parents what the plans are for recruiting a new Head. Are there any dynamic Governors who want change and improvement?

Also, look at the points score per pupil in the statistics and then compare with any grammar school in Bucks. They have no lower performing children of course but have a handful of middle children. You can see there are big differences in the points scores per child in that a middle ability grammar child is equal to high ability in a lower performing school so this can give a false sense of achievement too. If your child is a middle attainer at your school, then they are probably making poor progress. Can you find out if your child is considered a high attainer? Level 5 in SATs would indicate she is but even then there is 1-5 chance she is not making expected progress, let alone good progress! Oh dear.

Curlew. I do apologise. I was wrong re the benchmark comment. I expressed myself awkwardly. I meant the percentages fluctuate from school to school and were not nationally set percentages. Hence schools having no low attainers or few high attainers. Benchmark was the wrong word!

The results only started to be expressed as 5 or more A-cs including Maths and English a couple of years ago. Before that it was any 5. I wonder if the 71% figure reflects the old measurement and so hasn't gone down as such but has always been lower if you include Maths and English. iYSWIM!

In your position I'd look at the "good" comps that you're not in catchment for and if you agree with their reputation then get on the waiting lists. Children do move away, leaving gaps, and people are reluctant to shift them once they're settled so there's always a chance that a place will appear which you can pounce on.

Fair enough. I assumed that selective schools would have high achievers across the board and so it would be more difficult for them to 'add value.'

I can't get dd to the better schools. I work shifts, dh leaves for work at 6:30am and there's no school bus or public transport.

I do know one of the school governors at dd's current school. I'll ask her what's going on. How do you lobby the govt? Is it just a case of writing to Gove?

Have a look at the Value added scores for the selective schools in Kent ....
www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/group.pl?qtype=LA&superview=sec&view=aat&set=6&tab=100&no=886&sort=ks4_13.b8vamea_fsm&ord=desc

We have a parents' even next month so I think I need to ask some questions.

Not just from her teachers about progress, etc but I want to track down the head and ask him what the hell is going on.

as a comparison, here are the VA figures for the secondary moderns in Kent
www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/group.pl?qtype=LA&superview=sec&view=aat&set=6&sort=ks4_13.b8vamea_fsm&ord=desc&tab=100&no=886

are you comparing like with like ? Some other Level 1 /2 qualifications used to be counted as GCSE, some BTECs as equivalent of 2, and may not now.

"Fair enough. I assumed that selective schools would have high achievers across the board and so it would be more difficult for them to 'add value.'"

It is. Many grammar schools have VA less than 1000.

Too right .... three of the Kent grammars have VA of 969

then again the VA for the sec mods is scary !

Viva, my dd is also year 8, but at a very good comprehensive. She was level 5s in her ks2 Sats. By Christmas, she had gone up 3/4 sub levels according to her report, so I think you are definitely correct to question why your dd hadn't progressed.

Just to give you more ammunition, my ds is in year 8 at a secondary modern- he was a 5b in English at the end of year 6, and is currently working at 6a.

Make an appointment with her form tutor. Say in advance that you want to talk about her progress and say in which subjects, so that he can't put you off by saying he'll need to talk to th subject teachers.

But many of the grammars are higher than 1000, even in Kent. We also know some of their grammars are coasting.

What I find difficult to understand is the attainment of the mid and high achievers in different schools. I have looked at my local secondary modern, a local girls' grammar and a comprehensive I know well. The high achievers at the local secondary get an average of 324.9 GCSE points per student, the grammar 437.8 and the comprehensive 360. The average GCSE grade for the high achievers is B, A+ and B- respectively. Obviously the grammar has many more high achievers and the secondary has more than the comprehensive but the higher achievers in the comprehensive do less well in their grades than the secondary modern. This is mirrored across all abilities, so the mid and lower in the comprehensive all get lower average grades than my local sec. cohort. Can anyone explain why high achievers at a grammar school get A+ as an average grade but the comprehensive high achievers only get an average of a B-? What, exactly, the, does high achiever mean? Very confused.

THe average grade thing is the new bit,
on the news they said its the average of 8 subjects including English and Maths.
Grammar schools by nature of the 11+ will have more kids who will get top whack in both English and Maths and other classic Ebacc subjects
Comps are likely to have kids who have less 'balanced' academic abilities
eg rubbish at maths but great at art
I suspect the data needs some serious mining though ...

If the average is a then they must all get a for everything-are you sure that's right?

Is "higher achiever" relative to the cohort within the school or relative to national averages?

national

Low/Medium/High ability is a very broad brush classification. A highly selective grammar will have a disproportionately high number of pupils in the top 10/5/1% groups and thus their High Ability group will probably do better than the HA cohort of a truly comprehensive school, or even a less selective "anyone in the top 25% is in" grammar. That also explains how some grammars (not all) get very good VA scores - they're simply selecting at a finer level than the KS2 SATS can detect, and those distinctions become discernible within the wider spread of GCSE results.

Something we learned: you cant change the school. However, it is possible that you will be able to improve the experience for your DD. You really do need to be one of 'those' parents. Do go to parents evenings armed with questions. Dont listen to the platitudes (credit to the class, blah, blah, bollocks). Challenge back. Fix them with a beady eye and look for answers about lack of progress.

We were slow to realise there were major problems. Things reached absolute rock bottom in DD1's first year of GCSE:

• English: teacher took examinable coursework home then left suddenly. The coursework wasnt returned and its absence was only discovered close to the end of the year.

• History: teacher wouldnt teach to syllabus, no useful work done for the entire year

• German: teacher mor interested in marking her PSHE homework. Would tell DD1 what the lesson was and leave her to tell everyone else.

• Sciences: teacher off on long term sick filled in with non-subject supply teachers. No useful work done in the year

Despite how crap my DD's school was at the time (right at the bottom of the league tables) DD did leave with good GCSEs. Teachers in the second year pulled out all the stops to get the 2 year syllabus covered in a single year. I have nothing but praise for the teachers in the second year of GCSE.

Curlew. It says A+ not A. There are pluses and minuses used in the grades. Is is where the results are mostly A or above and the B's are outweighed by the As? Therefore there are more A*s than B's. This would be quite possible. Clutching are straws here! The grammars are not highly selective here. They take 30%. I was surprised they had any pupils in the mid range. They did. About 8%.

At my ds's secondary modern school, high achievers are those that come in on 4a or 5. At my dd's grammar school, middle achievers are those that come in on 4a- I would be very surprised if there are any on lower levels than that. Not sure what happens in comprehensive schools.

definition of low middle and high is the same for all schools as its ON the DfE site ....
here's a comp to look at
www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=136643&superview=sec&qtype=LA

The Grammar schools in Folkestone and Dover have 34% of the roll as middle ability kids . This is obviously a very high percentage for Grammar schools , but Grammar schools very wildly in their in take from area to area.