I'm just getting my head round Gove's changes to the exam system- and I am even mor horrified than I thought I would be!

[curlew]

The three things that leap out at me are 1)all year 11s have to do 8 GCSEs of which 5 have to be EBacc subjects, which will be a real struggle for many, 2) no more tiered papers, so one exam for all, so kids for whom a C is a real achievement have to sit a paper which has also to cater for the effortless A*, and 3)only the first attempt at an exam counts for the league tables. This means for a school like ours, where the vast majority of students are middle/low ability, and where we have always let many have a "practice go" early, won't be able to- because the risk to the school is too great.

wordfactory a higher grade pupil will not regurgitate! hence the A*/A/B grades, a D/E pupil will not stray from the one side of notes they are allowed.

I don't understand how the same paper can efficiently assess

1. Whether student 1 should be applying for Oxbridge
2. Whether student 2 should do a BTEC
3. Whether student 3 has good enough Maths and English to operate a till.

If the exam is too hard, many students won't just do what they can, they will be completely mystified by the whole thing and do nothing, and, as has been pointed out over and over again in recent years, if the exam is too easy the top marks become indistinguishable.

In English wordfactory. Where they are worth 60%...

In Science they are a bit different. I shall be glad to see the back of them though, that's for sure.

Exams are a test of memory. Well, about 50% of the marks are for memory, in my subject.

It was a while ago. Good to hear that it's more about progress. Still think that sky should be the limit for all children. Maybe old fashioned view.

No frog it is not a test of memory. Pupils are marked on spelling, punctuation, language use - as well as content and vocabulary.

They are allowed x amount of prep time depending on the value of the assessment. They are allowed un annotated scripts etc in the exam and for the longer tasks (Shakespeare is a four hour assessment) they are allowed an A4 sheet of notes. In my O a Levels I was allowed an annotated copy of the text ...

Yes happy it should be - but each child likes a slightly different sky, not everyone will want to reach for a sunny one ...

TheFallenMadonna - I agree exams are a test of longer term memory (its impossible to fully cram three years of work into a short term memory without some knowledge).

It just sounds as if controlled assessments are a bit of a joke if you get the question in advance, talk about it in class, make notes and then use those notes to write an answer. Surely that it ridiculous. Or is it just me. Surely most people could do an ok answer to any topic or subject with that method, regardless of their actual understanding of it.

I just don't know what that means though, really, when talking about all children of all abilities.

I have no problem when a tiered example is seen as a stepping stone to the true qualification. In scotland there are S4 and S5 exams. Low ablity scots take the S4 exam in their equivalent of 5th form and then S5 exams the following year. High ablity children take the s5 exams at the end of fifth form and then take the s6 exams the following year. I think such a system can work well if the low ablity children can stay on at school an extra year and then take their s6 exams.

Some children are simply not ready for gove levels at the end of year 11/ fifth form. Children from challenging backgrounds might need extra time at school to reach the standard even if they are reasonably bright.

It is naivity to think that a GCSE grade E certificate is worth anything to an employer. However it might show a teacher what level of course they need in that subject.

Unless a child has sen, should education not be able to get that child to a level in which they can sit an exam fairly competently? How do we decide who should only be able to 'work a till'.

Well frog you will be delighted then that we are back to 100% exams then! Controlled Assessments are no different to coursework, just with stricter guidelines for completion and no opportunity for resits.

Oh come on purple!

Students get a lot of help with their essay! Then they're allowed to take in a crib sheet, that is basically the key words from their essay!

DD has got 100% in all her CAs so far. And she aint a. a genius or b. alone!

From what I have read tiering will remain for maths and sciences but be removed for English. I think that is ok. I think tiering should be only employed where absolutely necessary, because it is disheartening to be told you are not capable of high achievement, even if this is true.

If your DD has 100% in all of her CAs then she is on for all A*s as they go towards the exam ...

Not even the pupils who go on to Oxbridge from my school get 100% in their controlled assessments - in my 15 years of teaching English I have only ever known a handful of pupils who got full marks - especially as they are sent off to be moderated ...

I have worked many a till in my life, and you certainly need maths to be able to check whether the information on your till matches the reality of the transaction and whether the discounts and special offers make sense.

However, the exams you take at 16 aren't just about showing whether you are competent. They are also used to distinguish between outstanding candidates. How can one exam in a limited time period do all these things?

Controlled Assessments are an almighty PITA for teachers (prep it, invigilate it, mark it, moderate it, mark it again, see who hasn't hit target & get them in at half term to have a go at a different task...)

• but no, it's not the case that you write an essay, memorise it & regurgitate it. Or certainly shouldn't be.

You can't come by a band 5 (A/A*) honestly without having a fairly sophisticated grasp of both the text & analytical skills.

which CAs has your dd done, wordfactory?

(Fairly extensive sharp practice does go on in some schools, mind you...)

But purple it's such a farce!

They get help in class, they get help at home. They hone and hone that essay (taking into account the marking system), then they learn it. And they can take in a crib sheet!

It's a license for the middle classes to print A*s.

Maths will be tiered. Found the link.

Raven she has done two Eng Lit and an Eng Lang.

I have worked in a school with children from very difficult backgrounds and home lives. I have also seen children with natural talents and intelligence within that school. How can it be fair for those children (who in some schools may go under the radar) to not be given the same opportunity to achieve as that of a child from, lets say a middle class background, where it is expected that child is going to achieve.?

...& again, wordfactory, I'm in agreement with you that a bright student with a good memory & willingness to endlessly re-work drafts of the task will do disproportionately well.

The real problem is that, as teachers, we are hugely incentivised by both carrot & stick to figure out how marks can be maximised by staying just within the rules. & being people who generally did rather well at gaming the exam system ourselves, we tend to be quite good at it.

Not sure what the answer is. Exclusively external assessment, probably, so all the more important that it's fit for purpose.

Anyway, what I want to know is how different will this new exam be from O-level?

Will it be like 1988-2013 didn't happen?

"How can it be fair for those children (who in some schools may go under the radar) to not be given the same opportunity to achieve as that of a child from, lets say a middle class background, where it is expected that child is going to achieve.?"

I don't understand.

Maybe at your DDs school word but not at mine - we don't cheat - kids are not allowed to take essays home. Yes they are given homework related to an essay, given a title and they study the novel. They don't (as not allowed by the exam boards) write and rewrite the essays and copy from memory.

I guess some schools do this then, which is why the rest of us suffer. Your daughter must still be incredibly articulate, literate and have both amazing spelling and vocabulary to get 100% in all five of her CAs