I'm just getting my head round Gove's changes to the exam system- and I am even mor horrified than I thought I would be!

[curlew]

The three things that leap out at me are 1)all year 11s have to do 8 GCSEs of which 5 have to be EBacc subjects, which will be a real struggle for many, 2) no more tiered papers, so one exam for all, so kids for whom a C is a real achievement have to sit a paper which has also to cater for the effortless A*, and 3)only the first attempt at an exam counts for the league tables. This means for a school like ours, where the vast majority of students are middle/low ability, and where we have always let many have a "practice go" early, won't be able to- because the risk to the school is too great.

Bonsoir
"being a "tractor driver" is not a job per se but an incidental part of jobs that do require skills."

I must tell my friends that there main source of income is just an "incidental part" of their job.

It's not a job of the future, tractor driving. Face the facts.

Lots of people saying we are going back 20 years or so. The exam system wasn't bad then though was it. At least exam results meant something - now they seem to be thought of as more worthless than ever before because the students seem to be able to boost their scores through course work and two attempts at exams etc (so I am told by nephew going through it but I may be wrong). I personally cant see the point of that.

"Surely if you get a C in a paper where a C is the best you can get, or get a C on a paper where some pupils can get an A* there is no real difference or reduction in achievement"

There's a couple of things here. There's the practical thing of the C pupils having to miss out loads, and the A* having to wade through loads of stuff that they should be able to take as read. And there's the psychological element-if you can only do a quarter of the paper put in front of you it's bound to make you feel a bit crap about yourself, isn't it?

I can honestly say that I Have never put a 'perfectly able DC in a lower set' for English. I have no idea why you imagine anyone would do that.

There has very occasionally been a discrepancy between my assessment of a child's potential & their parents, mind you. But I'm an experienced teacher & examiner & I usually get it right.

On a couple of occasions a parent has kicked off at the HT/governors because they think the child should be entered for a Higher tier, against the advice of teaching staff. The HT then usually says 'fair enough, so long as we all know that all the data we have predicting performance suggests that they will struggle to achieve their potential if they attempt the more difficult tier.'

Generally speaking, it's a kid on the C/D borderline, & once it's explained to the parents that they can get a B on Foundation, whereas Higher does not award below a D, so even slightly below par performance for that child would = U, everyone's happy for the child to be entered for Foundation.

If not - well, they do Higher & we usually scrape them the C they'd have achieved on Foundation anyway. Generally involves an awful lot of extra tuition, though, as the questions really aren't aimed at their ability level.

"I don't think anyone is failing to grasp that, curlew."

So why are you going on about low expectations, then? Oh, and could you address my point about "holding back"- why would schools do this when it would mean an automatic failed OFSTED?

What I am worried about with the removal of tiered papers is how are they going to be written. If they are written from (lets say) easy to hard then ok, the lower ability will engage with the paper and be ok. However it may lull the higher ability in to a false sense of security and they will bomb the last sections of the paper.

If the situation is reversed the lower ability will not engage but the higher ability will be ok.

until the papers come out (and some children are missed out) we won't know.

from memory, the last exam bits I read from gove he is removing past papers and mocks you go in to the exam cold.

No Bonsoir. You are wrong. There will always be tractor drivers (modern day ploughmen) just as there will always be binmen.

And while those jobs do not require high standards of education they are a crucial part of our economy and society.

Bonsoir
"It's not a job of the future, tractor driving. Face the facts."

How is food going to get produced?
Do you know of a way to plough and seed without a tractor?

Curlew - the students wont feel crap about it if they are prepared for it in advance I am sure. If they are told that at their expected level they will probably aim for half the paper and any more is great then they won't panic when they can only do half the paper and will feel comfortable doing only half. At least they then get the chance to shine on the day if by chance more comes up that they know than was expected.

At the end of the day there will always be people who can and people who can't. Exams won't be everyone's cup of tea but surely it ought to be a level playing field. One of my dds is crap at sport but they don't change the netball rules for her to make it easier - she just has to accept that she gets chosen last. I am rubbish at languages which holds me back at work but they don't change the job for me - I just don't do as well as others who are great at learning loads of languages. Its embarrassing but I have to accept my limitations and always have, even as a kid.

Life is a bitch - I think teachers are so good now, and schools are so good, that they can support all kids to reach their potential and exams won't necessarily be it but it does need to be a level playing field with pupils true knowledge tested.

What I find depressing is many people's willingness to dismiss children of lower ability. Being academically clever is, in many ways, its own reward-life is easier, you are more likely to be richer and more successful. And generally speaking, the education system is geared towards you. These changes just gear it even more that way.

Maybe tractors will drive themselves in bonsoir's new world! And bins will empty themselves, removal companies won't exist because furniture will be teleported, lorry drivers won't exists because goods will also be teleported, as will people so no need for bus or train drivers. Oh and products will assemble themselves so no need for factory workers....

x-post with Scone

I think its wrong that schools prevent children from even trying for fear of failure. Schools across the world with more sucessful education systems do not condem children to failure by not even allowing them to try.

"You wouldn't expect a DC in an SEN school to take an MFL GCSE, would you?

But the reality is, in the UK, that there are FAR too few SEN school places, and FAR too many DC's with quite severe SEN in MS with nowhere near enough support. "

Depends on the type of special school. A child at an EBD special school or a visually impaired child could potentially pass an MFL GCSE. Some children with learning difficulties at special school are bilingual. The MLD special school that I used to work at offered entry level certificates in French and BSL level 1 to the children. They also taught smatterings of French, German, Spanish and BSL to the children in year 7, 8, 9. Learning an MFL gives children an appreciation that there are different cultures.

Special schools are not pancera for problem children. Inclusion is there for a reason and its not just saving money.

But frogwqtcher, they aren't changing it to level the playing field, they are changing it to make it harder for lower ability children. It won't make much difference to the higher ability ones!

Have you looked at the requirements for the new GCSEs (or whatever dickhead is calling them)? The content is utterly ridiculous.

At the bottom of all of this is a system that makes it harder and harder for children to pass exams whilst simultaneously putting added pressure on them and on schools to improve their performance. It is ill-considered and rushed, and when we make it work we will be told we have cheated, no doubt.

Bonsoir, you said:
"Hold back is endemic in both the culture and the system in the UK. Having a single standard for which all DC are eligible helps to counter the worst of it."
My experience tells me that pupils are encouraged and supported in the UK far more than they are here.
Entering pupils for an exam where they have a chance of success is not holding them back. Entering pupils for an exam when they are very likely to fail is incredibly demoralising. "Je suis nul", they say.
Is that really OK?

titchy - that is exactly the way we are going.

Maybe the elite will design robotic tractors and the tractor driving jobs will become obsolete

Ooops, I see titchy worked that one out before me

What is so good about the current system is exactly what Gove is planning to remove - that magic GCSE C grade can be achieved, or at least aimed at, by all irrespective of what paper they sit. Nobody knows whether it came from a higher or foundation paper, not like in the old days when that grade 1 CSE which everyone told you was the same as O Level C, but you knew the reality was that employers looked no further than the words CSE...

What is the point of my A grade dc plodding their way through a paper of which half consists of easy (for him) repetitive stuff, that he'll rush through because he knows the A questions are further on and he needs to get to them quickly?

One of my children is very low ability. I think I am still happy with the changes as I do think exam results are seen as pretty worthless now. And the simple fact is that my dd shouldn't get a result in something where she doesn't truly know the subject. I do think that will be tested better in the new system - in the old she could have done great coursework (with our help!) and could have tried the exam a couple of times and taken the best grade (as I understand it?). But how is that really testing her ability and giving a true representation of her knowledge in that subject?
As the changes affect all - presumably all children like her will get poorer results and so it balances out. But it will mean that the truly academic get results they can be proud of. My dd will probably go into a job that is more physical and doesn't require good exam results if there are any around by then (or join the poor kids who can't get a job - awful).
But I could be wrong as I don't pretend to be a teacher but my naivety is keeping me happy at the moment.

EmilyAlice - I don't think the French system is perfect, far from it! And I don't think the English system is either.

I do think that it is crucial to have clarity on standards and that all DC should be eligible to take exams with rigorous recognisable standards (how cruel that teachers may decide they may not). The current UK system that allows retakes, to take exams early and late etc means that a handful of GCSEs cannot be meaningfully compared from one candidate to another. That is not a transparent, measurable system.

Of topic but wading in - there won't be tractor drivers in the future like there are now. With rising populations there will have to be a huge intensification of our food production with very high yields - this will probably be under cover in many areas to ensure growing conditions and won't use tractors - it will be automated feeding etc. Even in the last 10 years there are huge fewer tractor drivers than there were - the machinery is getting larger and they get more done in less time.

Off - not of obviously!!!