Yr 9 Options - Studying a second language independently outside of curriculum time

[QueenoftheSarf]

My DS is soon to choose his options and really doesn't want to give up either Spanish or French, both of which he's good at and enjoys. He hasn't made any firm choices on what he'd like to do for a career but he does certainly seen to have developed an aptitude for languages and doesn't want to limit himself to studying one ideally in case he does wants to pursue a languages-based career.

However, at his school they are pushed to go down the EBacc route and do one language and one humanity and then fit their other choices around this. He's also keen on computing and business studies and doesn't want to miss out on those either. I could push to insist he's allowed to do two languages but he really does want to do history too. It's a real dilemma this options business, as I'm sure many people can relate to!

The only other option I thought would perhaps be to study the additional language outside of curriculum time but I was wondering how feasible this would be? Has anyone got any experience of their children doing this, or are there any languages teachers out there who would be able to offer any words of wisdom? Also, has anyone got any advice on how schools can support children who want to do this?

I'm really just trying to clue myself up ahead of the parents' evening.

I am the Mother of a linguist and I was delighted her school supported her in this. I think Business Studies is superfluous however and definitely can be picked up at A level without a GCSE. If your DS is good at languages he will stand out from the crowd who do not. I therefore have no experience of doing a language outside school but I imagine you will have to make quite a commitment regarding time for the lessons and this would eat into homework time and extra curricular time. Would you want this?

Two languages is a major bonus for a linguist as it means he can apply for a dual German/French degree after A level or add German/French to another subject. Often this can result in plenty of offers from the Universities and possibly fairly low offers too. Definitely worth more than business studies.

Thanks for your input Milly. DS likes the sound of the business studies course, it sounds interesting and fun, and has practical application to everyday life too in terms of the transferrable skills that it can offer - such as team working, decision-making and problem solving etc. We also thought it would combine well if he wanted to pursue a business/languages based career. It was just to add another sting to his bow.

The extra commitment that studying the second language independently would involve is a concern and I guess you'd never really know just how much of a commitment you were getting yourself into until you started so it's a difficult call. I'd hate for DS to feel a failure if he couldn't hack it and I'd hate to feel that he might end up blaming me. I think I'll have to see what his teachers say and how they think he'd cope. Whatever happens, the decision will have to be DS' entirely.

I agree with Milly - take the second language instead of business studies at GCSE and pick up business studies or economics at A level if he is still keen. To study accountancy/business studies/economics etc at Uni, you don't even need to have studied them at A-level let alone GCSE so a second foreign language would leave his options more open if he is a keen linguist.

I agree with Milly too. Business studies can be done at A level without GCSE. French / Spanish can't (generally).

Another advocate of the second language here. DD1 did Business Studies GCSE and didn't enjoy it. At her school it seemed to be the option of choice for the less academic, though they (obvs) didn't tell us that when she made her choices.

Agree that Business Studies can be taken up at A Level, or even degree level with no prior study in that subject. Language A Levels and degrees require prior knowledge.

It would be an awful lot of work and require a great deal of motiviation to study a second language after school (whether in school or independantly), and your DC probably wouldn't be able to fit in enough hours to do the GCSE.

Agree - a 2nd language will add a string to his bow. Business Studies GCSE will NOT - it is often regarded as being for lower ability dcs (at least one exam board examines by multiple choice exam paper for instance).

Agree with the other posters about Business Studies, but also want to add that you don't need to study Computer Science at GCSE to have a career in computing. If you look at Computer science degrees the key subjects they require are Physics and Maths.
My dd is choosing options this year and my understanding is that the requirements for the EBacc have now changed (again) so that it is possible to take 2 languages instead of a language plus a humanity and still get the EBacc. Computer science is also included in the new EBacc because Mr. Gove thinks it's a Science!
HTH

languages are one of the harder gcses to study outside of school. he could study business or history at college but languages at college and even university are becoming harder to find courses in

He could still take a second language at uni if he decides to drop one now to take something else. There are language degrees which allow either a previously studied or an 'ab initio' language to be taken for either a second or third language. That way he'd be keeping all his options open just in case he finds something else he's passionate about in the next few years, which does happen!
Our DD1 took a second language for A level despite not having studied it before (we had to move schools, and area, for sixth form and her original choice of A levels couldn't be accommodated, but luckily the school was open to her idea). She does have a natural aptitude for languages but also worked really hard. She's now on a gap year, but off to uni in Sept to carry on with both languages plus either Russian or Japanese. Her friend is studying French and Arabic at uni, having dropped Spanish after A level and never having taken Arabic before.

Op; your analysis of business studies is correct - it teaches so many transferable skills, whilst gaining knowledge of the world they are about to enter is not met by any other subject . Whilst what others have said is true in terms of A levels/degrees please do not think of it as sub standard.

Titchy - the board you are referring to has one paper which is multiple choice, with 25% of the final mark - it's the paper that most students struggle to gain high marks on.....it is difficult and the grade boundaries very high.

Look at the different exam boards. You dont have to follow the one used by the school. Look into distance learning. Will it work for your DS?

DD did a third language as study outside of school. We used the school as an exam centre which they were happy with. This was the language of a country we had lived in for a few years and DD was fluent in though not familiar with GCSE syllabus.

DD took the exams early and this was good for teaching her good basic exam technique (read the sodding question!). She took GCSE really with just her own knowledge and me coaching in exam technique. We engaged a tutor for AS and A level.

The National Extension College NEC offers IGCSEs in French and Spanish

ds1 wanted to do another language as an extra curricular subject, but it wasn't offered his year. I'm so glad he didn't. Languages are very hard work and GCSEs are pressures enough without adding extra stress.

Generally you cannot do French, Spanish or German ab initio. The best universities will expect you to have the A level in these languages and therefore the GCSE first. Arabic and Russian and Japanese are completely different as are Italian, Portuguese and other languages not widely taught in school. Very few Universities allow 3 Languages. I know a handful do but the 3rd year abroad becomes a problem with 2 semesters, not 3, it makes fitting all three languages in difficult. Ditto if you are working. If you have lived in a country you probably have a head start in learning a 3rd language quickly but most do not have this advantage.
My DD2 did Business Studies A level without the GCSE and I think it is definitely better to go this route for Business Studies. However, an essay subject goes well with languages.

Studying extra languages at GCSE does not mean that they have to be taken to A level and for that matter A level languages dont mean that you have to study languages at degree.

I tend to take the view that studying languages at GCSE is in many ways the same as studying 2/3 sciences. Languages at GCSE are good sound academic subjects. I wouldnt honestly say they are any harder work than any other subject if you have an aptitude for them.

I know a number of children who have done a second (or third or even fourth) language GCSE mostly in their own time, but all have had the full support of their school - often to the extent of lunchtime or after school weekly lessons rather than a private tutor. You really do need at least some school support, as you need to consider how else controlled assessments (there are a lot, both written and oral for languages) will be possible. For MFL it is not simply a matter of learning the work and sitting an extra exam or two.