English GCSE advice on predicted grades please

[Dancingdreamer]

We recently attended my DD's GCSE option evening. We were advised by the English teacher that she is not capable of getting an A in English language and is firmly a B level. However he did believe she could get an A or A in English literature. She has to take both for GCSE at her school. For all other subjects she wants to study she is predicted As or possible As. (This includes another languages and history). We were bit surprised as up to now no one at the school has raised any issues about her English language.

Couple of questions please:

1. Why would there be such a difference in the prediction between the two English GCSEs? What skills would she be lacking in English language? Is it posssible 2 years from her exams to improve these predictions and how?

1. Why does she have to do both GCSEs? Would it be better to try and drop the weaker English and do another subject instead to try and get full set of As and A*s? Would that look better when she applies to uni?

Any advice appreciated please.

I have been told that it is easier to teach English Lit to an A or A than English Language. Does your daughter read much? If she doesn't it could be that she is unaware of more complicated phrasing & punctuation. I think if the rest of her grades are all As & As her lack of English language would raise flags as she is clearly able & industrious.

English teacher here. You certainly can't drop English language- she won't be able to do any further study without it. Students often have lower levels in Lang than Lit due to the requirement for accuracy if punctuation, spelling and grammar, which is marked for lit but only worth about 10% of marks, whereas the marks for accuracy for Lang are roughly 35% of the total. If she is in year 9 at the moment she has time to improve this though.

She has to do English language, there is no way she can drop it.

Yes, she can improve on predictions, teachers can't actually tell the future. You could think about getting a tutor if an A is that important.

I think all schools have a requirement to teach both so dropping will not be an option, they need to keep studying until they either pass a grade C or are 18 years of age.

I think it seems a little odd that she is weaker in this subject although I too have been advised that Eng Lit is easier/more common to teach/achieve higher grades.

I would ask: what is her current level ? What does she need to do to achieve the next level ?

There are marking schemes available, which teachers use to assess levels. Work on improvements and I agree reading should help enormously.

Good luck

The teachers are guessing. Your child has done no GCSE level work so they havn't got a CLUE about how they will perform let alone enough info to make a specific grade call. What utter nonsense.

Find another school.

'Find another school' - yeah great advice there....alternatively ask the teachers who presumably have taught your dd and know her ability how she can improve.

It could be an accuracy issue as another poster said. However, if she's in Year 9 now there's plenty of time to work on that!

Every single student I've ever taught who got an A in Lit got an A or A in Lang. I would ask the teacher how to proceed and look at tutoring. If the teacher is adamant she won't get above a B so early then I think they're being a bit ridiculous.

Mrs Bright, that's ridiculous advice. Of course her teachers know how she is likely to perform at GCSE. The OPs daughter has been at this school for more than 2 years and will have had ongoing evaluation and monitoring.

Did the teacher give any idea of what she was finding difficult? It does seem a bit odd to be so very definite so very early. How does she feel about it?
Oh, and please ignore Mrs Bright. Bonkers advice!

I'm always a little [hmmm] of teachers who purport to make accurate predictions.

They are facilitators of learning, not clairvoyants.

All they can tell you is where your child is now on the trajectory. They cannot say with any accuracy if your DC will improve unusually, do no work, or something inbetween. They cannot know if the government are going to mess with boundaries. They cannot know what sort of day your child will be having at the time.

Thank you all. She reads loads. Can't get her to stop! However, she is not accurate with spelling and punctuation. How do I go about rectifying this? One of her teachers did wonder if she had slight dyslexia but the school did a review with the teachers and decided not.

Mrs Bright i believe the school are already setting the kids GCSE papers so may be why have such definite response.

When kids have to do English GCSE is it always 2 separate grades & 2 separate qualifications: one for literature & one for language?

This is what I hate about targets and predictions, they have parents and students believing this is the grade they will achieve.
I have found it to be detrimental to both of my ds and am still convinced they would have done better under a different system.
I believe all their targets should be A or A* where available and the papers shouldn't be tiered. This would benefit those who are motivated during the middle or even the end of their GCSE study.
If you tell a child they are a c grade they will work to this level.

Giving somebody an A* target when they couldn't possibly achieve it would be soul destroying.

I think the problem is that many people, including , apparently, some teachers, who don't know the difference between targets and predictions.

My dyslexic DD1 wouldn't get an A for English Lang if it was the only subject she did and had ever done at school.

She'd desperately like to scrape a B for her first choice sixth form. If she doesn't the world won't end. She'll just stay on at her current school.

She's a scientist, A and A* for science and As for maths matter for the future, more than basic competence in English doesn't.

Unless your DD wants to study English at university or do something horrifically competitive like medicine or law, I can't see anyone caring about a A rather than a B.

(My best friend got C lang, A lit, many moons ago. Our exam was a huge % for writing an essay from just a title, which was not her thing at all. It's never been a problem).

lljkk there is a single 'English' option but it's aimed at pupils who would struggle to do both lang and lit. The exam is effectively lang and the controlled assessments are lit so it does cover both but in much less detail.

Thx @ Antoinette.

Dancing - I presume your dd is in year 10. Some schools do English Lang at the end of year 10 - any chance your's is one of these? Might explain the teacher being so certain about her prediction? Even if she is doing it at the end of year 11, she may have done some controlled assessments which count towards her final grade, thereby giving the teacher a good indication of final results.

DS2 got an A* in Eng Lit (comfortably) but a low A in Eng Lang so I reckon there was probably 1.5 grades difference.

I think that is could also be greatly due to the changes in exams. Pupils will be given one chance to get their grade and the exam (for the 2015 sitting) is vastly changed with an even higher weighting on spelling and punctuation. We have been provided with an outline but nothing more specific.

although you say she reads does she make a conscious note of techniques and analyse writer techniques? I'm not saying with every book she reads as it takes the joy out of it but maybe the odd chapter here and there. also for the english language it's more about non fiction, particularly if she is aqa. so access and analysis of non fiction for reading and writing purposes are key. non fiction writing too is something all exams cover so looking at reviews, persuasive speeches, letters etc.. with the 20% s&l now gone too it is more weighting in the examination. grades at this stage are just a guide. some students can graft from their say D grade target and get a B. everyone is different. she has two years yet and a B is a very respectable grade and nothing to be sniffed at at all. and I find in year 11 students really mature and go for that final push.
in my experience students do tend to do better in lit than lang. I would disagree that it isn't important as a good rounding in analysis, writing and language goes a long way in whatever your chosen career path is.

Thank you again all. She is still in year 9 and the discussions on grades were to help the kids decide on their option subjects. Feedback is that she isn't accurate with grammar or spelling. However, she can't spot her own mistakes. I don't understand why or how to help her as my spelling and grammar used to be really good (not sue still is!)

Starballbunny -sadly she does want to do a horribly competitive subject at uni. She is keen on either medicine or engineering hence why so worried about a B!

Minime - I have in the past gone through styles and techniques but I am not an English teacher so not really sure what or how to teach her.

Feedback also that she isn't accurate with grammar or spelling and she can't spot her own mistakes. I don't understand why or how to help her as my spelling and grammar used to be really good (not sure still is!)

Any help from teachers on how to help her greatly appreciated!

hope the following helpful:
the website englishbiz is really good for writing styles and has lots of great advice. can't go wrong with BBC bite size.

re grammar the book, 'Oxford A-Z of Grammar and punctuation' is really concise and very handy to have at home or in her bag. (i have it at work as a reference to use) the key things to ask of a text are: HOW a writer has done something, WHY a writer has done something and EFFECTS achieved.

her teacher should provide you with some other things and next year in yr 10 ask for example texts etc.

that junk mail you (collective you not you specifically!) chuck out especially from charities is free and jam packed full of devices to persuade you. so I always advise students in yr 10/11 to be looking at those and analysing them.

hope that helps

Minime yes that's really helpful.

Is it really possible to improve her grades between now and GCSE? Always thought English was more of a "natural" rather than "learned" subject. Eg she just came home today with 99% on history exam because she knew what to learn.

absolutely possible. never be defined by a target grade. a child is a child not a grade. there are so many outside influences that can alter these 'targets', they do have relevance as they give us statistics for other children in similar schools and areas etc and its good to have a guide. for teacher, student and parent.

students mature so much over these two years. honestly. talk with dcs teacher with any concerns.

sorry I didn't mean that's what you are doing I meant dont let your daughter think especially not this far away from her exams that she is a particular grade. good luck.