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Secondary education

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Original poster

Achievement badges

39 replies

aliasPrickleandJones · 15/01/2014 21:08

I'm angry and sad about something that happened at DD's school. Angry Sad

They had an assembly and awarded badges to those students who achieved a pass in both English and Maths at the recent GCSEs in November. They are Year 11. By all accounts the students had to troop up to the stage and be awarded the badge while the rest just sat and felt like failures.

DD failed maths and was feeling pretty disappointed about it. She is a hard worker but finds the subject very hard. She said that she felt humiliated as the entire year group could see who passed and who didn't. Talk about rubbing salt…

Seems divisive and crass, I've complained.

Just wondered if any of your schools do something like this?

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 15/01/2014 21:15

so you are pissed off that they rewarded success ?

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 21:18

I can't see the point in that, myself. Is a badge meant to motivate the others to do better next time?

Does seem pointless and divisive to me. And it's not just 'rewarding success', there are other, less public ways to reward success.

TalkinPeace · 15/01/2014 21:20

there are other, less public ways to reward success.
but that is not how life works
success is VERY publicly rewarded later in life
get used to it

BUT
a good school would have - at the same time - rewarded different criteria like sports music and arts so that every child was a success in their area of expertise

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 21:26

Success is very publicly rewarded
Really? In what way? I'm pretty successful, but I haven't won prizes/certificates/badges.

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 21:27

Also, giving every child an award makes the awards meaningless, and children know this. It does more harm than good, actually, to those who know their award was a bit made up.

TalkinPeace · 15/01/2014 21:28

house, car, holiday, supermarket, gym, schools

all the things that those who "have" do not notice
and those who "have not" do

I bet the kids who got their badges had no idea that others were upset

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 21:30

Good lord, how depressing that those are the rewards of success!!!! I'm delighted to say I've been rewarded with none of those!!!

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 21:37

I assume the purpose of the badge presentation was to motivate, both those who passed and those who didn't.

Making the kids who failed feel a bit crap because of the public nature of the presentation won't do much to motivate them, in my experience.

For the kids who did pass, a better way of motivating them to keep achieving would be for their teachers or even principal to speak to them individually and tell them how pleased they were, and mean it.

Really, badges?

Original poster
aliasPrickleandJones · 15/01/2014 21:47

Wow TalkinPeace, your take on it is really different from mine.

My child who works her little socks off, she is motivated, consciencious but really stressed and anxious too. She has tried hard but didn't quite get there. Does she have to sit there where others (many of whom have not worked so hard as her) gets applauded.

You will say it's life, but it is not kind or nurturing.

Anyway surely getting a pass grade should be reward enough? And could be celebrated more discreetly as dumpling says?

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 15/01/2014 21:54

where the school failed was to reward a very narrow part of their cohort

I have no problem at all with rewards
they are what life is about

I have a big problem with narrow minded schools that cannot reward and recognise different skills

do the athletes get to go up when they do well in a meet?
or the musicians when they pass an exam?
or the dancers?
or the stock car drivers?

rewards are good
they are essential
but they should have breadth

Original poster
aliasPrickleandJones · 15/01/2014 21:55

Yes, and perhaps they should reward effort as well?

OP posts:
Original poster
aliasPrickleandJones · 15/01/2014 22:02

And dumpling I totally agree with you.

Divisive and demotivating.

OP posts:
diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 22:03

But even if a school rewards all kinds of skills (as i would say the vast majority do, these days), there are still going to be those who don't get an award.
Rewarding effort is a much more valuable motivator. It contributes to the development of mastery goals, rather than performance goals, which is what schools should be doing, in my opinion.
Pretty sure you'll disagree, talkinpeace, i think we're coming from different points of view.

titchy · 15/01/2014 22:06

What percentage of the cohort were given badges? If there were only a handful of kids who remained sat down I'd say you had a point, but I'm guessing the majority of kids were not rewarded. They did well - good on them. Do schools really have to pussy-foot around and keep quiet about their students' successes just in case little Jimmy gets upset....? And I imagine every year 11 kid already knew who had passed both exams anyway.

takingthathometomomma · 15/01/2014 22:07

I agree with TalkinPeace. I don't think that they shouldn't have rewarded those who did get the grades but they certainly should have rewarded other achievements too.

ReallyTired · 15/01/2014 22:16

I'm sorry but I think your daughter needs to toughen up a bit and not be so pathetic. The school were celebrating sucess and the kids who passed deserved to be congratulated.

"For the kids who did pass, a better way of motivating them to keep achieving would be for their teachers or even principal to speak to them individually and tell them how pleased they were, and mean it. "

Why should praise not be given publically? Children should never be ashamed of achievement. Some schools bright children underachieve because its not seen cool to pass exams. I realise that some children will never pass their exams however hard they work, but that is no reason not to celebrate TRUE achievement. If everyone passed GCSE with a grade C it would be meaningless.

From this thread anyone would think that the children who have "failed" have been made to parade infront of the school in dounce's caps.

I think that badges are a bit silly though. The real reward of passing GCSE maths and English is the fact that it opens up a wider range of jobs and higher level study. Most year 11 know this.

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 22:22

It's a bit of a leap to go from, not presenting badges in assembly to making them feel ashamed of achievement. I'm obviously not suggesting achievement is something to be ashamed of. I've taught for 15 years in a girls' grammar school, I know that motivating children is a complex issue. For what it's worth, my postgraduate supervisor (in education) was appalled at the way schools announce the names of their high achievers in an assembly in a roll call of success.

ReallyTired · 15/01/2014 22:33

"For what it's worth, my postgraduate supervisor (in education) was appalled at the way schools announce the names of their high achievers in an assembly in a roll call of success."

OFSTED are critical of universities when it comes to training teachers, so I would take postgraduate supervisor's opinon with a pinch of salt.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25749480

""It is a national scandal that we invest so much in teacher training and yet an estimated 40% of new entrants leave within five years," he told the conference.

He said that the "disconnect" between the theory of teacher training and its practice in the classroom had "bedevilled the education system for far too long". "

Why is having a roll call of sucess a bad thing? Are you worried that it sets up the sucessful children for being bullied? Twenty years ago when I did GCSE no child got both GCSE Maths and English almost a year early in a selective girls school. Surely it is not that common to have GCSE Maths and English six month early in a comprehensive in 2014. I imagine that the majority of students did not have badges.

Having class position of every child in a school report is very negative when it comes to moviation. Some private schools make children's class positions public knowledge to the rest of the class. This is very different to congratulating a child for passing an exam early.

diddlediddledumpling · 15/01/2014 22:47

I assumed it was a modular paper, not the full GCSE. Modules can be taken in November of each GCSE year.

The problem with the roll call is certainly not its impact on those who have achieved success, and i'd be surprised if it made them a target for bullies! It's the alienation it can cause to those who know their name is never going to be read out. They can feel a little bit less a part if the school community, and that's not a good motivator. I've had conversations with pupils who have told me they feel this way and I've seen them losing the will to achieve. They see the roll call as another demonstration that "in this place, teachers are only interested in you if you're clever/sporty/musical".

With regard to my supervisor, to be honest I would take what Ofsted say with a pinch of salt. She supervised me through my masters, not my initial teacher training, and we had many interesting conversations. She had a lot of experience in schools before she became an academic, indeed she had started as a classroom assistant. Maybe she's not typical, but I thought her very wise. She called a spade a spade.

happygardening · 15/01/2014 23:46

Badges? For 15/16 year olds? How very bizarre. I bought DS2 a "genius" badge as a joke present for Xmas. I would never have given him one as a reward for exam successes, for a start he doesn't like to shout about his achievements and secondly at his age a badge is hardly a reward. OP does your school do star charts for yr 11 children as well?
There is no need for a role call for high achievers children can usually work out for themselves who's successful and excelling academically and who isn't.

BerthaBeans · 16/01/2014 06:58

I think not awarding successful students because it will make those who didnt achieve as well feel bad is akin to the concept of giving rewards to everyone on sports days so everyone is a winner as some primaries have been known to do. It's not how the real world works and makes rewards worthless. I agree that things beyond pure academics should be rewarded, at my DD school all subjects do termly awards in assembly for effort and progress as well as for students who excel in terms of levels/grades which means everyone has a good chance of getting something across the year. The head of year also gives out 'achiever' badges for students who are on track to achieve the highest amount of their target grades which seems a bit fairer as it allows for achievement being relative and gives all a chance to shine not just the top 10% or so. I know they do the same in trwerms of GCSE grades as well.

I think the thing that would annoy me most in your situation is that for some of those students who got a C they probably still under achieved. My friends eldest DS was a source of much frustration at school as he was expected to get all As but was lazy as well as bright and achieved mainly C's. What would be gained from rewarding him for that?

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 07:06

the idea is that it uses the mocks to make students take seriously that there are outcomes from exams and for those who didn't put the work in it would help motivate to work harder - badges equal exam certificates if you like and having a taste of what it's going to be like to have passed or failed at the end of the year.

whilst yes there are some who won't have got grades because of their ability there'll be others who haven't because they couldn't be arsed or they can't get their heads round the fact this is real and will actually affect their lives.

i don't like the idea of a world in which we can't celebrate and encourage achievement. perhaps they also celebrate other kinds of success in the school year re: sports, music, effort etc.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 16/01/2014 07:07

Might not have chosen this as a strategy but to be honest I agree that dd needs to toughen up. Every single week there is something someone else can be better at than you, potentially. You have to come off the pitch at half time so the othe rub gets to play; everyone sees you leave. You don't get a part in a play and bf does, you get moved down a set... I'm surprised five years at secondary school haven't given her the opportunity to develop skills in clapping politely while seething inside!
The answer is to develop some resilience, I think (too much Wwaterloo Road Blush) rather than complain about them rewarding/ celebrating success.

CouthyMow · 16/01/2014 07:08

God, that's horrible. So glad DD 's school find ways to reward as many as possible. They look for the skills that individual DC has, and reward for effort and improvement too. My DD, despite her SN's, has had a reward of some sort every year. Last year it was for her having had 100% attendance, and also for most improved in English.

Didn't realise some schools still only looked at results rather than the individual DC. How crap.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 07:10

also at 16 they're being coddled too much from reality.

should we not have the olympics because it makes people who are bad at sport feel bad? or not do promotions because it makes the people who aren't in higher positions feel bad?

being able to handle that clapping politely at others success is quite a life skill. imagine a world full of grumbling grown ups still whining 'it's not fair' and being resentful and offended whenever anyone else achieved something?