Scottish unis free for european students???

[horseygin]

Does anybody know if it is true that our european counterparts can study fee free in scottish universities ... and yet we have to pay full fees? That surely cant be right? Tell me they have to pay too... please?

Happy to help!

It's the SAAS and not the English equivalent that your DC needs to apply to for the loans.

Coconut - don't you think there is an argument for the Scottish Government to give the support to the individuals, like the old style grants so that you are investing in the individual Scottish child and what they might bring to the economy rather than the Universities. I think it is quite parochial thinking on the governments behalf and suits the universities more than the kids.

I am happy for Scottish students that they don't pay for studying in Scotland. However I resent the fact that a German student doesn't have to pay to study in Scotland yet an English student does.

It is like having to show your passport in M&S in order to find out how much they are charging you.

You should campaign to your MP about it.

Fanny, I wouldn't waste my time. The policy on free Higher Education, in my very humble opinion, is based entirely on being a headline grabber for the SNP and is ill thought out like many other policies but I do think it discriminates in a way that leaves a bad taste in my mouth with regards the " if you are Scots and you want a free education you must stay and study in Scotland." Scotland has some great Universities but not the best in the world, if you have a child who can compete to get into the best universities in the world and they get a place, don't you think we should be trying to support these kids? It should be the individual that is given the funding as they are the ones who will bring economic worth to the country. The Universities need to charge fees commensurate with others worldwide to keep them at the top of their game. As I said, only my opinion.

It is a sad corollary to these divergent policies that it narrows the choices made by students and will make us all the more insular, unless more Scots are now going into the EU universities?

Motherstongue, further up the thread, I was (I think!) agreeing with you re fees- if we win independence, "free" fees will have to go, and there are a lot of good reasons why (I mentioned some up thread). Yes it's a vote grabber but people are not seeing that it could actually damage their child's chances to the best courses in the best Scottish universities.

I'm not sure what you mean about the Scottish gov not supporting individuals though? They do, with the package of loans (fees are charged by Scottish uni and you need to apply to have them paid over for you when you apply to the SAAS for the living cost loan. Grants are available for low income families too. That is supporting the individual and not the university surely?

Yes, I agree, but it's only available for Scottish Universities. (Though please correct me if I'm wrong) so the individual is not supported if they want to study elsewhere. As funnyosity said, it makes us more insular.

You are wrong! My DS is at an English uni and gets a living cost loan and a fee loan through the SAAS . Same would apply to a Scottish student at a welsh or NI university

I stand corrected. Don't need it for another 3 1/2 years so might be all change again be then.

Very true!

DD has applied to one Scottish uni but we don't really want her going there. The funding thing leaves a very bad taste, plus it would be a four year course rather than the three she would do in England, so it will cost an extra 20K.

We are also slightly concerned that in years to come the standing of Scottish unis will come down, as other English parents won't want their DC to go where they aren't wanted, and it will reduce the currency of any degree she gets there.

We are also slightly concerned that in years to come the standing of Scottish unis will come down, as other English parents won't want their DC to go where they aren't wanted, and it will reduce the currency of any degree she gets there.

You what? Really, what?

You do know that there are a whole variety of hugely complex systems which evaluate and rate universities, their teaching and their research? Which are independent, academic, and international? And that the origins of students does not determine their achievements?

The only way this could possibly make any sense at all is if the 'currency' you are talking about is marriage-market value. Not that that ever enters the heads of the nice mummies sending Jocasta off to to History of Art or English Lit at Edinburgh or St Andrews...

If fewer top students apply to the Scottish unis then the grades they are asking for will come down and the quality of the average student will come down. This will impact on university standings eventually if it persists.

I will be interested to watch the rankings over the next ten years to see what happens. I hope I am wrong.

Cericeir, who said English, or indeed any other non Scottish resident is not wanted at Scottish universities?

The issues of fees, number caps etc is not about the individual student or their nationality - students should be (and are) able to apply to university anywhere in the uk and they have funding packages to enable that. Students can and do also apply to universities outwith the uk - usually without funding, just as (for example), an American student can apply here if they so chose (and some limited funding is available for some).

I understand what you are saying Raw. Home students pay less in Scotland, like in the US, and that does feel right. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the fact that we would have to pay more for DD to study in Scotland than a German student would. How can that be right?

I don't mind paying the same as the German, I don't want to pay more.

Cerisier are you effectively saying that top students cannot possibly come from Scotland?

Top students from Scotland are in fact MORE likely to stay in Scotland than go to Oxbridge et al, so perhaps the reverse will be true.

No I am not saying that at all. However Scotland has a small population so if it wants to keep up its standards it should be encouraging top students from all round the world to Scotland. The large population of England, right on its doorstep, who all speak the right language, seems a good group not to upset from a marketing point of view.

But no fee is a much more attractive proposition to a top European student than £9k pa is, so I'm not sure on what basis you think England paying fees is detrimental to the Scottish HE market (and I HATE using the M word when applied to education...)

So you are upset by the idea that if you came to a Scottish university you would be paying the same fees as if you went to an English university?

I think you should be more upset by the fact that England (NOT Scotland) elected a government which is trying to turn Higher Education into a free market free-for-all. But since you did, this is the result.

I will be paying up wherever DD goes whether it is England or Scotland. That is fine. However I would not be happy if in the room next to her was a German who was paying practically zilch. What has the German tax payer ever done for Scotland?

Why can't it be the same rules for all non-Scottish students?

Due to education funding being devolved, each country in the uk has come to its own decision regarding fees - and how they spend their share of the uk tax take.

Scottish residents uni fees are paid for by that share of the tax take. Why should we spend our money on paying the fees of English resident student, when a different decision was made in England wrt how the English share of the uk tax take is spent (ie not on uni fees)?
The situation with the European students was forced on us by eu law - it's crazy and can't continue, it's costing the Scottish tax payer millions of pounds a year (as I said before these students are very welcome to apply here but it should be because they can get a degree on the cheap).

Scottish student are being disadvantaged as a knock on effect of these policies. The numbers cap on Scottish students applying to each course at Scottish university means that it is harder for a Scottish student to get a place on the most competitive courses (because eu students count as "Scottish" for the purposes of the cap), and also due to the cap, there are now virtually no places available to Scottish students in clearing (even though many thousands of places at Scottish unis were on offer to English students (Scottish student bared from getting those places).

English students are getting offers with lower grade than is being asked of Scottish students.

*should not be