Grade Boundaries, SPaG mark losses, dyslexia

[kitchendiner]

Just wondering what chances a student with dyslexia has of getting A* or As when you take off 5% SPaG marks for RE, Geog, History and 12% English. Is there still a chance of getting the top grades?

I was looking at the grade boundaries for English out of a max of 300: 270 = A, 240 = A, 210 = B, 180 = C. Losing 12% (36 points) would give you a max score of 264 which would be an A. But realistically, are there any candidates that get the max score or come close to it? What percentage of A, A students would be left with A*s and As if they were to lose 12%.

It'll be 20% for English in the new GCSEs so even less chance.

My son who is severely dyslexic sees an A as the maximum he can get in most exams (possibly Maths is the exception). With Speaking and Listening taken out of English now he is pretty much shafted in that subject and a B would be his A*.

All the extra time in the world won't put him on a fair footing with Gove-Levels.

Thanks Kez. It's very disheartening and disappointing that a student could get everything correct on say a History paper but get a lower grade than someone who didn't give such good answers simply because they lost 5% SPaG marks.

It is however heartening that an A grade is still within reach.

I think and hope that the Speaking & Listening is still part of the IGCSE which I believe is what they are doing at our school.

It is so unfair. My DD lost out last year on this, and DS will next year.

Both have scribes for exams, so can't ever get full SPaG marks.

Just one thing, the grade boundaries you are looking at are ums scores and not actual scores. 270ums does not relate to 90% of the marks available (well in theory it could but is most unlikely). I have known pupils with dyslexia and scribes get A* in subjects other than English so I wouldn't give up all hope.

I expect though, the % you have known getting A* is a lower % than those without dyslexia and, also, saying known implies the past - the SPaGs and lack of Speaking and Listening are recent and new changes which change the footing to remarkably unfair. Hence me calling them Gove-levels.

Apologies, but I get very, very annoyed by these changes because they are so discriminatory.

THat's a point- how do they score someone using a scribe on spelling?

coco They don't. Hence the automatic loss of marks if you have a disability which means you need a scribe. (In theory, if you dictated letter by letter you could get the marks, but there is not time to do this within the exam)

For language exams, this is can be reasonable depending on what is being assessed. But for other subjects, it is just unfair.

Bulby Did these A* grades include the 5% loss for SPaG or was it before they came in? How about English with a 12% deficit? Is a B the best possible?

Creamteas
Totally agree. Our kids are going into these exams minus 5% before they even walk through the door. Unfortunately, apart from SPaG, English is DS's best subject. At least he'll have more chance of a higher grade in English Literature. Feel sorry for the current Year 8s who will be 20% down rather than 12%.

Have a look at the following link for more information on sPAG marks.
www.aqa.org.uk/news-and-policy/policy/changes-to-gcses/spelling-punctuation-and-grammar. It is possible for students with a scribe to obtain at least some of these marks. On many papers there is usually a special symbol in the margin (usually a pen or similar) to indicate that a SPAG mark is available for that question and then the student can dictate spelling and punctuation to their scribe for that question (or part question). The guidelines say that the candidate should know which questions carry the sPAG marks so this system is likely to be extended to other papers.
However to obtain the marks the scribe must fill in the cover sheet provided by the exam board to indicate that spelling, punctuation and grammar are the candidates own work. If this is filled in correctly the candidates are likely to be awarded the marks. This can also be done for candidates completing the exam on a word-processor. If the cover sheet is not filled in and signed no sPAG marks can be awarded by the examiner.
At GCSE (subjects other than English language) the punctuation mark is usually for writing a relevant sentence beginning with a capital letter and ending in a full stop. This should be achievable by most candidates.
HTH

Crazymum have you ever tried dictating exam answers letter by letter?

Not only is there not enough extra time to do this, it severely disrupts the concentration.

Yes, some marks can be picked up for punctuation and grammar but the marks for spelling are not achievable.

My son is in year 11. He was assessed and denied a scribe and reader at the start of year 10. I don't know what the assessment was just the outcome. He was very close - especially the reader part, but not close enough. His spelling is awful but it is phonetic. His handwriting difficult to read to (he is also dyspraxic). He received a scribe and reader for year 6 primary SATS.

He did manage an A in Physics in year 10 and high B iin chemistry and biology with just extra time (he writes and reads slowly too, so extra time allows that to be fair)..

With all the changes and spag should I be requesting another assessment for the scribe as clearly the goalposts have moved and 5 marks is a huge amount when you think how many children are literally 1 mark either side of the grade boundary.

I don't understand the comment about iGCSE - can you elaborate? My son is doing a normal GCSE and has been told the S and L he did in year 10 (full marks) will not be part of his final English grade but reported separately.

Matilda Yes, please do you have any more info on the iGCSE Sp&L? Are they looking at taking it out? This, like Kez100 is where DS could get full marks.

I take your point about "quality of communication". This could be a tripping point although DS is very good at being original and insightful. The framework around this is something he could work on. I feel it would be more worthwhile to work on something like this than the spelling.

Kez, I think you have to score below 85 on a standardised reading and spelling test plus a further writing test to qualify. I would speak to the Dyslexia Assoc for advice. Could he use a laptop? I think my DS will use a laptop.

Without speaking and listening a B will be DD1's A* in English too.

Her preferred six form are insisting on a B for English, it's causing a lot of stress.

As are spellings in Geography, it's ridiculous in the real world you look up a technical term before putting it in a report if you spell like I do.

Oh and she lost her A* for core science purely on a Writting marathon CA (she got 99% on one paper and 96, I think on another)

Not that she should be doing double anyway, that's the fault of a dyslexia discriminating against Twat

My daughter got A and A* in 10 GCSEs - it is possible but she worked incredibly hard (without exaggeration probably 3 or 4 x harder than her brother who should get similar results this year) and has developed all sorts of strategies over the years to cope. Her post 16 assessment qualifies her for extra time and a reader for her A levels, she has decided not to use a scribe. She is doing all essay based subjects at A level!

Kitchendiner re: the use of a laptop - she was told that she cannot use any spell checking software in exams. When her poor spelling was added to the typos, she has decided that she would be better off not using one. With hindsight a touch typing course may have been useful.

Thanks Kez, fingers crossed that our school keeps the iGCSE and Gove doesn't meddle.

Do feel for you Starball - very wrong that spelling in Geog could somehow end up being more important than understanding and analysis. I am wondering if the new rules are taking out CA from Science?

Mitzi, well done to you DD! Yes, the laptop is still very problematic and there are still loads of mistakes. Without it the writing is illegible. I think the SENCO told me he would be able to use the spellchecker but obviously then wouldn't access the SPaG marks. This was a while ago so things may have changed. Have a good touch typing course but getting DS to do it is the problem.

Kitchendiner - interesting what your SENCo said about the software. Our advice was given last month so should be up to date - maybe it's because she is doing English? I am going to double check.

I have to say, I think all of our children are amazing to keep going with the level of difficulty they face every day.

On the plus side, from what we are being told, there seem to be a much more common sense and practical approach to dyslexia at university.

My son is in y11 on all linear gcse courses. He has dyspraxia and all docs to prove it but we have been told that its unlikely he will be given extra time due to new strict rules. From baseline screening in y7 he was predicted Bs. Now hes looking at Ds (C (maths) D and E in others in the mocks). I would be over the moon with Cs. Its so depressing and heartbreaking. Hes had to put with his SEN and general abuse from (ex) friends and even some parents. So wish he could of made it through before the changes. :( so sad about it.

Hi all, I have just written to my MP to raise these issues. Apparently the Dyslexia association are encouraging people to do this. I encourage you all to do the same. You can do it easily over the internet. I also suggest you include some key points. Firstly, that UN rights for the child convention states that children have the right to be consulted on matters that affect them. I have asked my MP if any SEN children were consulted on the changes made to the GCSE some of which have been altered following the start of the course. Secondly, it is against the law to place people at a disadvantage because of their disability. As dyspraxia and dyslexia are listed disabilities then changes that immediately disadvantage them must be illegal? Starting an exam with -12% feels like a disadvantage to me. Re extra time the deadline is end of Jan so we dont have much time here!

My DD is dyslexic and dyspraxic and suffered at the hands of the Gove inspired grade deflation in English the year before last (actually in the English Literature I GCSE, it wasn't widely publicised that there were big anomalies there too ) I don't think the new SPAG rules applied.however without a doubt the pupils with SpLDs were disproportionately affected.

We also discovered with weeks to go that the tightening of regulations on extra time meant she might loose it, speed is no longer taken into account and working memory and processing score have to be below average ( regardless of ability and that average scores would still represent a significant disability to those of high ability) and we had to get an updated Ed Psych report to justify it. The Dyslexia Association is fighting on that front too, the new regulations discriminate against bright dyslexics. This is Ofquals justification following representations www2.ofqual.gov.uk/how-we-regulate/90-articles/864-extra-time-in-qualification-examinations-and-assessments-for-learners-with-dyslexia-or-other-specific-learning-difficulties and Dyslexia Actions take dyslexiaaction.org.uk/news/latest-examination-access-arrangements-and-special-considerations Please raise that as well if you write to your MP.

This year she scored in the high 90+ per cents on all four ASs, and 100% in one ( and that involved 2 back to back 3 hour exams, she was a basket case at the end, straight to bed with cold compresses on her hands, she is slightly less slow in writing than on a computer stripped of word processing) She worked very hard indeed but it is doable. After GCSE it seemed as if her wish to study Literature at uni was closed down but she has four offers to read English Literature at the best non Oxbridge unis in the subject table. School advised that the unis know exactly what is going on. And yes support is so much better at uni. I am just glad we are nearly out of Gove's sphere of influence.

My DD in year 10, sat the GCSE English last November - the last cohort (I believe)for which the speaking and listening counts. She is dyslexic and is awaiting her result tomorrow with some trepidation. She got A/A* in the controlled assessment components.

I teach English at an academy. We do the IGCSE (love this course - great for developing the skills of pupils rather than teaching to one particular test).

Our students with dyslexia have done well under the IGCSE. Last year, one dyslexic student had coursework at a B grade, S&L at an A grade and achieved one of the highest exam grades in the year group and ended up being an A* overall. It is possible.

Which exam board is he using for English?