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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Thick as muck

78 replies

Kenlee · 02/01/2014 01:08

I was asked this question at a party when talking about our DC...

If your child was thick as muck would you have still sent her to private school or bother tutoring her if she was in state school?

I really didnt have an answer for that as I was rather dumbstruck at the question.

After some thought I think I would still send her private.As she maybe a late developer or she was not engaged with her teachers.

If I couldn't afford it I would most likely find tutors that could engage her and get her moving.

If couldn't afford either I would then read books myself and try to engage her...

But I would never give up on her....

I think the main reasons why children fail is because parents give up on their children. It doesn't matter what socio econmic background you are from but if you give up. Your children will do the same....

Although being a helicopter tiger mum is also not very helpful to your child either....

OP posts:

ReallyTired · 04/01/2014 00:13

Gunznroses Some people do really well from state schools. (I'll let you in a secret that some children in those nasty state comps are let into Oxbridge!)

I believe that many private schools are coasting on the high ablity of their pupils. I feel that every school in the land should be inspected by OFSTED. Prehaps this would stop top private schools kicking out the nice but dim children.

nibs777 · 04/01/2014 00:23

Agree with that comment ReallyTired....people need to look behind the "brand" especially when paying so much...but the statistics are often misleading and often hard information is lacking ....I have noticed marketing has become very slick for some privates..... often selling themselves as "aspirational" places to aim for.

Original poster

Kenlee · 04/01/2014 01:24

Actually we know of many schools in Hong Kong that take on non academic children to Year 10 then will suggest your child go eleswhere to take the Year 11 ...

That way they keep their elite status....the ones who won competition for them but are not academically bright are asked to move on.

I do hope that is not the case in the UK....I think all schools should be forced to keep their children from day 1 to the last days of the O levels or A levels....

Then its all about teaching not rejecting....

I also think inate ability is inherited but to bring it out you need good teachers and good parenting.... You usually find the TAM children have parents that don't care and teachers who would rather not bother...It is this combination that is lethal....

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nibs777 · 04/01/2014 01:40

there's quite a few privates that cull at sixth form here Kenlee, including some famous ones, and then also give out scholarships to attract very clever new children at sixth form, some of whom may come from state, so this further enhances their A level A* and Oxbridge success results...which in turns keeps new parents coming...this is what i mean about stats/league tables being misleading....there should be open info of how many original year 1 students stay on, and how many new join at 6th form, so you can determine how much is value add and how much just further selection and filtering out the bottom % per cent who may be encouraged or asked to leave.

curlew · 04/01/2014 01:50

State schools are like Ikea, it does the job, but its no frills

hmmm...the ones near me are like Primark, you wash it once and it falls apart."

Words absolutely fucking fail me, they really do.

Original poster

Kenlee · 04/01/2014 06:29

I agree with you there Nib....

I kinda like the analogy of Ikea and Primark Im not sure it encompasses all state schools but it did bring a smilet o my face.....

All we need is to find a crap brand name so we can tar some of the crap indie schoola with it too

OP posts:

curlew · 04/01/2014 09:09

Oh, there are loads of independent schools that are just like those brands that aspirational people think are posh but aren't- like Louis Vuitton and Snythson........

curlew · 04/01/2014 09:10

Smythson, even!

summerends · 04/01/2014 09:15

Actually we've had mainly great quality clothes from Primark, perhaps relating to what we chose. All goes to show that some bad experiences may not be generally representative.

curlew · 04/01/2014 09:27

It also goes to show how damaging to one's world view blinkers are!

Original poster

Kenlee · 04/01/2014 09:54

Speaking about LV I have one but I don't se what is so special about it...

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Marmitelover55 · 04/01/2014 09:58

We have some really good state schools (comps) where I live (my DD1 is at one) and TBH when I looked round all of the local schools I felt that some of the private ones were looking a bit tired and the facilities at the state schools were amazing, thanks to the Building Schools for the Future programme (what a shame thi was scrapped in favour of free schools).

Gunznroses · 04/01/2014 11:53

Reallytired I think you really need to read posts properly before replying because you're beginning to sound silly...i refered to the state schools.. 'the ones near me' and yes i know very well about about state school children going to Oxbridge but thanks for sharing your nuggets of wisdom

Curlew Words can continue to fail you but the truth is not all schools are like IKEA! they don't all do the job, and the ones near me like i said are failing the children. Be shocked all you like.

Elibean · 04/01/2014 18:31

I remember a classmate at secondary school. Everyone quietly or not so quietly thought she was thick. She had poor writing skills, was clumsy, inarticulate and was bad at sports (irrelevent I know, but for some reason a lot of the girls pigeon holed those of us who were bad at sports as either very thick or very clever ). She was kind, and always bottom of the class.

She, however, went to Oxford and became a scientist.

Whereas some of us top of the class-ers took drugs and dropped out.

I will never, ever write anyone off or give up on them, or think I have them pegged forever.

Ericaequites · 05/01/2014 00:25

There are some children who are not clever or talented at anything. No amount of pushing will give them five good GSCEs. It would be better for them to be shunted off into work at 16 rather than wasting further time at school. Note: this is not more than a tenth nationwide.
I'm an American, and far too many children here are encouraged to attend university. Some sort of sorting at thirteen or so would be highly beneficial. I only wish we had nationwide Regents exams or GSCEs.

Ericaequites · 05/01/2014 03:09

A school doesn't need lovely facilities to give an outstanding education. I went to a selective private alive with asbestos, and tiny dark classrooms, but excellent teachers, hardworking students, and committed parents. Now, there are lovely light rooms, many oversized Macs and other computers, a distinct lack of student selection and discipline, and far worse results.
I think aptitude is a mix of genetic and environmental factors, but good parenting can greatly increase the expression of innate talent.
However, no amount of tuition and diligence can compensate for a lack of talent. No one in my family has an ear for music, and can't play for toffee. Practice and music theory tuition can't help us, as nearly all notes sound the same. We know the National. Anthem only because everyone stands and uncovers for same.

PositiveAttitude · 05/01/2014 09:05

I have been reading this thread and feel that I really need to post.

In some people's eyes my DD3 is that " thick as muck" person. She is now 19 and does not have any GCSEs. I would like to say Kenlee that I NEVER gave up on her! We knew she would never achieve academically, but she is the loveliest young lady you would ever meet and I am incredibly proud of her. I feel that she has achieved so much more through hard work and perseverance than her sisters who have gone off to uni and done so well academically. She is far happier than they are!! School was hell for her - being judged as not good enough, being told by teachers that she was "thick" and would never get anywhere in life...... She is dyslexic and dyspraxic NOT THICK!!!

Original poster

Kenlee · 05/01/2014 11:59

The point is positive you never gave up...the teachers may have but you never did. Although I think if the teachers were any good her dyslexia should have been picked up at school. My brother was also dyslexic but he worked it out and is a chartered civil engineer...So being 'TAM' at school in the academic sence shows no resemblance to what may happen in the furture.

I think once you give up that is the end...people say why children are TAM ....its not them that are TAM but the system that failed them...

Schools that don't care and want to get rid of them...Teachers that don't care as it requires to much timr to teach them. Parents who dont care enough to spend their energy on helping them.

Then people say why schools are failing...

OP posts:

PositiveAttitude · 05/01/2014 16:56

Thank you for the post, I do agree, but some people, no matter what you put in are just not going to "get there". DD3 was diagnosed as severely dyspraxic at the age of 3, went to a fantastic school where it was always known she would be dyslexic as well and yes, some teachers seemed to waste her time and she had some bad years. On the other hand she had some amazing teachers who were absolutely brilliant and she did really well with them. If she had had those teachers all the way through, would she have been more "successful"? No, I dont think so! We did all we could, she did all she could, some teachers did all they could and she just does not have "it". BUT she is happy, a qualified hairdresser and so very happy with her lot in life. - far happier than those struggling with uni and chasing endless money etc. I have learnt an awful lot from her and her attitude to life.....a far better lesson than any academia!

Original poster

Kenlee · 05/01/2014 23:56

The point being positive is you found something good that she was good at...I bet she enjoys her life and most likely will earn more than the Uni student too...

OP posts:

PositiveAttitude · 06/01/2014 09:06

Yes, I agree. I wont share that with her sisters who are slogging their way through uni though!

Original poster

Kenlee · 06/01/2014 12:21

ha ha she may even have to help them pay of their student loan....ha ha ....

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ICanTotallyDance · 09/01/2014 02:56

Well, this thread is all over the place but here's my two cents in regards to the original question.

If I had a TAM child and the school was:

a) Highly academic and private : no, of course not, that would be cruel. Imagine struggling to learn your times tables while every other child in the class was busy learning the area of shapes.

b) Not pushy but very supportive private school : if I could, yes, I think this is the best place for a TAM child at least in primary school (or a very good state version), maybe they would be better suited to a vocational school later on. The small class sizes would be a great help, I think.

c) Great state school I would not bother going private, unless it was only "great" for middling or bright children, or DC was lost in the numbers.

d) Okay/crap state school well, I would go private then if I could.

If the choice was between a) or d) I might cry.

PositiveAttitude · 09/01/2014 09:46

Oh please do not say "TAM child" it is incredibly hurtful and derogatory.

happygardening · 09/01/2014 10:01

nib77 culling in the 6th form to ensue your results look good is not the sole preserve for the independent sector nearly all the comps rounds here do it as do our nearest grammar schools.
The league tables are misleading what ever school state or independent they're ranking.

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