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Secondary education

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Original poster

Advise needed on how/whether to broach the school re sets.

37 replies

mosp · 30/12/2013 12:18

I'll try to hot a happy medium between being concise and not leaving out relevant details here.

My dd (year 8) took 6 months out of her school so that she could go to Germany and attend school there (to improve her German). Because she was away for so long, I had her taken off the school roll, though the school have always expected her return.

Somehow, I have found out (grapevine) that at the beginning of year 8 they had a rearrange of sets. All (and I mean, literally all) of her friends are in top set and this set is now full. I have heard that my dds name has been spotted on a list for the set below.

I am certain that had she been present, she would have been in top set (as she was in year 7, with no difficulties at all) so I am guessing that they just found it convenient to put her name on the other list as she is not there anyway.

She's been skyping her friends and told me yesterday that a teacher explained to her friend that the reason she's been demoted is that she will likely have to catch up work she's missed. Personally, I don't believe that. I think it is because the top set has more pupils in than the one below.

Dd is returning in a month. She would be miserable not to be learning with her friendship group (and also, only the top set gets to learn German)

Do I:

  1. wait and see what set they put her in and tell her to accept it? Or then challenge it?
  2. write to the school before she returns and request that she be put with her friends?
  3. try to arrange a meeting? If do, when?

I don't want to come across as a pushy parent. I'm not. I just want her to be happy. She doesn't mind swatting up on areas she's missed if it means she can be in the top set.

So, how should I handle this?

OP posts:
AlaskaNebraska · 30/12/2013 12:19

Wait and see. All this on the day so of some kids on Skype? I don't think so

Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 12:19

Sorry for typos. iPod. I'd rather hit a happy medium than hot one!!

OP posts:
AlaskaNebraska · 30/12/2013 12:20

Plus. Trust the teachers More. Plus friendship groups? Really. Year 8? She will manage

Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 12:21

And then... Challenge it or leave it be?

OP posts:
Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 12:22

Of course she will manage. But be far less happy at school. She loved year 7. That was because learning was a joy and she had a great bunch of friends to work with.

OP posts:
AlaskaNebraska · 30/12/2013 12:23

So you took her out?! ;)
Leave it. Wait and see.

Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 12:25

Ok, I suppose I have to just wait and see. But then what?

(She wanted to go to Germany btw. It was her choice and I supported her. She's there with family)

OP posts:
AlaskaNebraska · 30/12/2013 12:26

Wait for assessments. Or results. School will move her of she warrants if

noblegiraffe · 30/12/2013 12:28

You will get absolutely nowhere requesting that she be put in the same set 'as her friends'.

She has been out of the school for 6 months and in an unknown system. She may well have missed some work and need to catch up. The other pupils have earned their place in the top set through their results and asking that one of them be demoted in favour of your DD is unlikely to get you anywhere.

Your DD needs to get back into English schooling and win her place in the top set fairly, by outstripping those in the second set. There will be movement between sets at other times.

Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 12:32

I didn't really expect another child to move down - just thought they could maybe squeeze another in :)

Should I request a list of, say, maths topics that she's missed?

The friendship thing sounds trivial, but to her it is not.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 30/12/2013 12:42

If it's full, then no, they probably can't squeeze another one in. My top set fills my classroom, no spare desks.

Friendship might be important to your DD, but the school will not care. They absolutely cannot make setting decisions based on people wanting to be with their mates, it would be chaos.

Asking for the scheme of work to see what the rest have done would be a good idea. It won't make a difference to setting though until they have done their own assessments.

Lottiedoubtie · 30/12/2013 12:46

What set you are in has nothing to do with your friends and everything to do with your ability.

Which is proven through testing on material taught.

Frankly you took her out for 6 months and she's only dropped one set? That's remarkable and I would be pleased.

Clavinova · 30/12/2013 12:47

If only the top set studies German then obviously you have a good case for her to be included in that set if she's able in other subjects as well - just don't mention friendship groups or school grapevine. I would email the school asap re setting and German - they may be planning a re-shuffle as it is and you want to remind them that your daughter exists.

AlaskaNebraska · 30/12/2013 12:50

Agree. Bollocks to friendships. She's managed in Germany surely ?

notallthere · 30/12/2013 12:51

I think you could push on the German thing, rather than the setting issue. As she has spent 6 months in a different education system, she will likely be behind in some areas, but likely ahead in others.

However you could speak to the school about how passionate she is about learning German (she must be pretty keen to spend 6 months living there) and how disappointed she is that she will not have the opportunity to use her knowledge and study it to a higher level.

It would also be helpful to get a list of everything she has missed, so she can fill in the gaps. Get her some KS3 revision guides (CGP?) and I am sure she can catch up quickly if she is bright.

The friends thing is not going to be relevant, she just spent 6 months in a school where she presumably knew nobody (excepting perhaps a few family members?)

LIZS · 30/12/2013 12:54

Seems daft for her not to be able to continue German if she is a shoe-in for A/A*. Do they usethe same set across all subjects ? tbh you aren't really in a position to negotiate until she actually returns though in which case 1 would apply.

BackforGood · 30/12/2013 13:01

What everyone else says. Firstly, I wouldn't go on the gossip of her friends. Secondly, you chose to take her out of school (here) for 6 months, therefore, the school doesn't know what topics she's covered or what she's missed or done differently, so it's perfectly reasonable for her to be in a lower set until she can show what she is capable of now, in Yr 8. Thirdly - secondary schools (nor Primary IME) don't 'set' by friendship groups, they set by the level the children are working at, at the time of setting. Fourthly, I'm not sure how you can suggest 'being in the same class as her friends' is important, when you chose to send her to a different Country for 6 months. I'm sure if she can manage that, she can manage 40mins of a maths lesson without them. Fifthly, of course they can't just keep squeezing another child in - or do you expect that rule only to apply to your dd, and not other dc who fancy being in the top set?

Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 13:10

The sets are across the board, so you are with the same class for all subjects.
Ok, I'll just leave it up to them.
Thanks for advice.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 30/12/2013 13:22

If she has been living in Germany and studying at a German school, then won't her German be a bit beyond Y8 German anyway? She should be looking into being assessed and possibly entered early for GCSE.

I'm a bit surprised that the school streams (if it is for all subjects then it is called streaming not setting). I didn't think many schools did that any more, because it's a rubbish system!

Original poster
mosp · 30/12/2013 13:31

Oh, it's called streaming? Yes, I agree it is not the best system for some kids. It is alright for dd1 because she is an all rounder. But dd2 starts there in sept and she definitely has strengths and weaknesses so I worry a bit about her.

OP posts:
stressedofstreatham · 30/12/2013 17:28

Ref the German thing. She will be way ahead of her classmates but if she is prevented from doing it later for GCSE or would have to join a beginners class in year 9 then that is the group she needs to join.You could write with the pretext of saying you want to help her hit the ground running and reintegrate quickly so are there any copies of assessments in marhs and science they can send you.If you are confident she will be ahead in maths you could tell them she has kept up with key stage 3 and send a list of the topics she has covered and say you hope that this will allow her to join the German set.

stressedofstreatham · 30/12/2013 17:29

Ref the German thing. She will be way ahead of her classmates but if she is prevented from doing it later for GCSE or would have to join a beginners class in year 9 then that is the group she needs to join.You could write with the pretext of saying you want to help her hit the ground running and reintegrate quickly so are there any copies of assessments in marhs and science they can send you.If you are confident she will be ahead in maths you could tell them she has kept up with key stage 3 and send a list of the topics she has covered and say you hope that this will allow her to join the German set.

stressedofstreatham · 30/12/2013 17:29

Ref the German thing. She will be way ahead of her classmates but if she is prevented from doing it later for GCSE or would have to join a beginners class in year 9 then that is the group she needs to join.You could write with the pretext of saying you want to help her hit the ground running and reintegrate quickly so are there any copies of assessments in marhs and science they can send you.If you are confident she will be ahead in maths you could tell them she has kept up with key stage 3 and send a list of the topics she has covered and say you hope that this will allow her to join the German set.

MrsAMerrick · 30/12/2013 17:36

I find it very strange that a school operates this sort of streaming - as noblegiraffe says, it's a rubbish system and doesn't cater for children who may be good at English but weaker at maths or vice versa. I would have concerns about my dc going to a school which split the pupils like that. In the vast majority of secondary schools it would be possible to be, for example, Set 1 for German, Set 3 for science, Set 5 for maths etc etc. Sorry, not helpful I know.

Presumably you had a conversation with the school about the possible impact on your daughter before you sent her away for 6 months. If at that point the school didn't advise you that your dd might be placed into a set which wasn't doing German then I think you would have grounds for complaint. If they did advise you that this was a possible or probably outcome, then I think you will just have to live with it.

JodieGarberJacob · 30/12/2013 17:43

Is this a state school? I'd just be glad your dd has been included especially as she's not on the roll. Have you re-applied for the place? Could it go to someone else who moves into the area before next month? Logically how could they put your dd in the top stream without having a clue where she's at?

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