Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Evidence for DCs exceeding expectations in 11+ - or am I kdding myself?

43 replies

MrsSteptoe · 28/12/2013 10:46

I referred to this in passing in another thread, so soz if you see both: but is there any evidence for the idea that DCs may do better in maths and reasoning exams than practice papers?
DS is doing 11+ in January (he'll be 11 in March) and I keep hoping that maybe he'll get a few extra marks just because he's in an exam room and there's nothing to do except focus, IYSWIM. He tends to be a bit fidgety here, and keeps shouting out "I'm half way through, Mum", "I'm on question 20, Mum". He's hovering around the 70-75% mark on maths, he can be around the same mark on reasoning but he's had some spectacular crashes. I know these aren't stellar marks.
I suspect English practice papers are a more accurate indicator of what he'll do on the day.
I guess the answer is that some will do better, some will do worse because of the pressure, but I'd be interested to know if there's much evidence of DCs exceeding expectation when they get to The Big Day!

OP posts:

ErrolTheDragon · 28/12/2013 10:53

Unhelpfully, I suspect that 'I guess the answer is that some will do better, some will do worse because of the pressure' is about as accurate as anything else you may hear.

I'd say that the closer you can get to exam conditions for his practice the better so tell him (again, probably!) that he mustn't speak in exams; if he really needs to communicate (eg desperately needs the loo) then he must raise his hand. Tell him you don't need to know how far through he is; if he finishes early then he should go back and check his work for the remaining time.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn · 28/12/2013 10:55

I guess the answer is that some will do better, some will do worse because of the pressure

Unfortunately, this is true :) Some will rise to the challenge of exam conditions, some will be freaked out, some were never capable anyway. You simply can't know.

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 28/12/2013 11:44

I think I just needed to chat, really. Husband is sometimes a bit uncooperative about tolerating me when I'm in autowitter mode. Thanks, ladies. x

OP posts:

Ladymuck · 28/12/2013 11:51

Have you come across the First Past the Post series? After the child has done the test you can fill in the answers online and it shows you any patterns as to which ones they get wrong - can help spot any gaps. It also peer reviews the scores, but I suspect that the population of those filling it in were always self selecting as Ds seemed to be in the bottom 20%.

It might be time to start the 2014 Whitgift-Trinity thread.

CinnamonPorridge · 28/12/2013 12:12

I think it depends on the child. They can be prepared and really bright, but it is a stressful situation.
My dc did get exactly what they got in the last practice papers they did. One is relaxed (almost horizontal) and one is a worrier in stressful situations. You cannot know what goes on during the exam.

Matlow · 28/12/2013 12:38

I really hope you are not kidding yourself Mrs Steptoe as I am hoping my DS will surprise us by doing well at his upcoming entrance exams. We came to the idea of DS going to an indie only a few months ago after the dreadful realisation that we actually had no viable realistic state choice in our area of South London. The bond papers have been a real eye opener, we naively thought that if you were bright and doing well in school that would be reflected in results with the papers. DS was all level 5's at end of year 5 so we thought it would be OK but with the exception of NVR which he finds easy his scores in all the others started at around 30 - 40 %! He refuses to do any English papers and we have to fight with him to even 1 paper a day but he is now getting between 50 and 65% but is inconsistent. He got 88% on a maths paper one day and 30% the next day but that was because the paper consisted almost entirely of areas he hasn't covered in school.

Luckily he isn't doing 11+ as he would have no chance but we are seriously worried he won't get an indie offer. He has exams for Dulwich College, St Dunstans and Alleyns. We have decided that there is little point putting him through the Alleyns ordeal which is a shame as it's just round the corner and he could walk. He seems to get on much better with the practice papers from St Dunstans so we are pinning our hopes on him scraping through and we have a week to decide whether he should do the DC exam. We thought it would be good practice as he has no exam experience but I am worried he will feel demoralised and lose confidence and then crash and burn in the St Dunstans exam. He wants to do the DC exam but I don't think he is sufficiently prepared. He is upstairs doing a timed DC maths paper now and when I just checked on him he had stripped down to his pants and was throwing a ball against the wall!

Sorry it hijack your thread and ramble on, I just needed to offload as I have gone from a carefree easy going person to a anxious, sleep deprived obsessive with a cold sore to boot!

I want someone to tell me that everyone gets in to St Dunstans and all will be well......... Or that he could well rise to the challenge and do really well on the day.....

Ladymuck · 28/12/2013 13:19

To be honest Matlow at this stage I would let him sit all 3. If nothing else DC will be a useful mock if he isn't used to the idea of the exams at all. I'm not aware of boys stripping off in the real exam, but it might even work to his advantage, who knows! (Will now try to ensure that Ds isn't distracted by such tactics!)

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 28/12/2013 15:07

I meant 11+ for independents, Matlow, including DC and Alleyn's, actually! and feel free to hijack, I think there's a particularly tricky aspect to trying to airlift kids out of state primaries where the preparation isn't geared even remotely towards indie entrance by comparison with those whose kids have been at a state school where the transition to private is more common, or, obviously, at a prep school. I want someone to give me good news all the time, and am constantly typing posts to put on Mumsnet, only to rub them out before posting because I've realised I am asking complete strangers to reassure me, constantly, without even knowing my DS. Which, of course, they can't do. But I think the lack of peer support, the absence of other mums you can chat to from your primary school because they're not applying to independent, is quite hard.
I get that it's stressful for everyone, I'm not claiming that it's harder for us, just that the lack of company on the journey is quite a tough characteristic of my own experience.

To echo Ladymuck, I don't think I'd want DS's first exam to be the one that we want him to pass. Use DC as practice. Our "really hoping for an offer" school, St Benedict's in Ealing, is his second exam, which I think is optimal. Trinity is his third exam, and Emanuel his fourth - which is a bit of a shame, as it's the third exam in three days and I fear he will not do as well because of that.
I would pull him out of Alleyn's now as it's highly improbable he'll get anywhere near an interview, but he wants to do it and I don't want to undermine his confidence by saying there isn't any point. If he's knackered on Monday 13th, I'll offer it to him as an option and let the reg fee go.

Matlow, If you want a running mate to chunter with for the next couple of weeks, feel free to pm me.x

OP posts:

Marni23 · 28/12/2013 16:02

I wouldn't assume that an interview at Alleyn's is out of the question, I know of 3 boys last year that got an interview there but not at DC (Alleyn's interview far more applicants). No guarantee that an offer will be forthcoming of course but it might be good for your DS's confidence to be at least called for interview which, if they're anything like the one my DS had there last year, are really just 15 minute friendly chats. They seem to put lots on the waiting list there too.

Good luck with it all!

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 28/12/2013 16:10

Thanks, Marni23 - good to know! My DH just said that he would try to gently persuade DS to still take the exam even if he's flagging a bit, so I guess we'll just play it by ear - and you're right, I do feel that even an interview will bolster his general self esteem (sadly dented when he failed both Wilson's and Wallington, while his bezzie mate passed).

OP posts:

Ladymuck · 28/12/2013 21:21

MrsSteptoe, out of interest how much info were you given about your Wilsons/Wally results? Does it help identify a weak area?

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 28/12/2013 22:33

Only his mark, the number of boys who took the test and how many passed. For Wallington, over 80% passed, which gave me a few tearful days, but I didn't tell him he was in the bottom 18%! it doesn't identify whether the issue was eg maths or English, but I would suspect English let him down!

OP posts:

Ladymuck · 28/12/2013 23:00

Well he wasn't in the bottom 18% of those who applied! And there were lots who applied who won't be sitting this next lot. But I'll be drinking red wine with you through the next month, and hopefully the following one too.

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 28/12/2013 23:27

Here's to us - and to our lovely DCs who are just perfect no matter what the outcome!

OP posts:

Matlow · 29/12/2013 10:57

Absolutely MrsSteptoe! They are lovely and much too young to be judged and tested in this way. Having said that I wish we had started a year earlier. Decided to leave it yesterday and just have fun, went to see Harry Hill movie and dinner out. I really don't want DS to get stressed or see how freaked out I am.
Excellent advice from everyone. I think we will probably let him sit DC as mock but still think Alleyns might be a bit of a stretch but will see how he is on 13th. He has only practiced two DC papers so we will complete the other 4 this week and see what happens.
MrsS I am sure your DS will be fine, I have been told that 70% on Bond papers should definitely secure place in most schools. We are not yet in that position, yikes! I will pm you though as just in case I am working on plan D!

Ladymuck · 29/12/2013 11:10

Certainly I was under the impression that the Alleyns papers were easier but that essentially they select via interview. I think they expect to interview 300 out of 588 (or 587 if your Ds doesn't turn up )

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 29/12/2013 11:21

Thanks, Ladymuck. interesting. I knew they called loads of interviewees, though not sure how hard the paper is. DS seemed to come away from the open day with the idea that Alleyn's is supersmart and he probably wouldn't get in, though he wants to try - hoepfully he won't be too downcast if he doesn't get in because his expectations are not high IYSWIM.

One good thing about being so close - I'm much, much calmer now that it's too late to do more practice papers/swap tutors/book extra tuition etc. Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.

OP posts:

stressedofstreatham · 29/12/2013 12:09

Do put him in for Alleyn's. I know one who got below average for tiffins so somewhere in the 'bottom' 1000 and yet got through the eligibility test thingy this year and down to the last 400 and something for Wilson's as managed to write something useful in the English.Much is down to luck especially in the English eg If he knows none/all of the vocab in the comp that will make a difference of 5-10 marks. Also as has been said often independents are looking for a mix of kids so may still consider a child who has done well on one paper but is weaker on another whereas for Wallington nonsuch etc your child is just a statistic.

Ladymuck · 29/12/2013 12:09

"Strategies" vary! I'm going for a full on week starting tomorrow. (We're not doing DC so will have 10 days), and am ever so nervous that I may have left it too last minute. If I were back at the start of year 5 then I would have concentrated more on vocabulary, but we are where we are. But yes, way too late for different tutors etc.

Ds seems to do ok on exam day, but actually it is the interviews that will throw him more (so utterly different from his elder brother that it will be a shock for any teacher who encounters both of them - they've been at separate schools thus far so very few teachers know both).

stressedofstreatham · 29/12/2013 12:10

p.s. any other lonely mums out there with dds?

stressedofstreatham · 29/12/2013 12:17

Re Wallington. The English was apparently worth a third or thereabouts of the marks yet was only 25 mins so they can't have managed much whereas at Wilson's they had a whole hour just to write one article

Ladymuck · 29/12/2013 12:20

Come over to www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/1949925-The-Trinity-Whitgift-South-London-school-10-11-thread-of-2014 and meet another dd mum.

The written papers vary across the indies too - Whitgift is a long essay, Trinity shorter.

stressedofstreatham · 29/12/2013 12:21

Original poster

MrsSteptoe · 29/12/2013 13:55

Yes, he did better at Wilson's. I stupidly didn't put in a bid for extra time as I have with the independents - we have an NHS report from an OT stating that in her opinion it would be necessary for him to have extra time to realistically produce the same amount of written material because of pronounced hypermobility and the excess hand fatigue it causes.

OP posts:

ClaraMaugham · 01/01/2014 22:50

I've got a DD just about to embark on her exams - similar sort of deal but South West London. She's scoring round about the same kind of marks as far as I can see, and it's nerve wracking stuff. I'm worried about the interviews too. Would appreciate some company while going through it!

Flip

1 2