Is it school or am I being a bit precious about this?

[badasahatter]

DD is 12. Last week she came home and said the teacher had told the class that none of them would be put forward to GCSE next year, based on an assignment they were given before the last holiday. They were advised to take 3 hours on it. DD did that. She got feedback that said 'what a pity' and highlighted all the things she hadn't done right.

Teacher said no one had spent 3 hours on it. How does she know? DD spent all afternoon on it, from 1pm to 5pm. Maybe she's not as quick as some kids, but the piece of work she turned out was beautifully presented with diagrams and quotes and allsorts. Looked fine to me.

If it was lacking in info, why didn't they just highlight that instead of making generalisations? Put in an enquiry asking why the kids were being told they wouldn't be put through and to ask for advice on issues. Flagged that feedback wasn't constructive and not positive. Child in danger of being turned off from a subject she loves.

Turns out, on talking to teacher that dd had picked an interesting topic, but hadn't covered certain areas. Teacher said she thought the assignment was too hard for them but was given it by head of history and had no choice but to issue it. We sorted things out for the future. She said she'd be more positive in future and give better instructions/guide of what needed to be done and more constructive feedback.

Opened up my email and found a missive from the head of history which has wound me up. He said that there had been no fault found with the teacher in any way, her feedback was fine, and he further added:-

"the two year KS3 is a challenging concept and I am sure the group in general and your daughter in particular will have the opportunity, in the imminent assessment, to record a more encouraging performance and one that reflects our estimate of ability."

Is this really patronising or am I being a bit precious?

I would forget it and move on. The expectations for the HW were miscommunicated or misunderstood and the teacher probably got a helluva shock. The email would annoy me as well but it is not worth destroying your relationship with the teacher and the school.

Perhaps ask for a copy of the scheme of work for the term do you can see exactly what they are trying to achieve.

Thanks Abitannoyedatthis. That's much more constructive than the email I'd penned in draft saying, 'you'll have the opportunity, in the imminent assessment, to record a more encouraging performance and one that reflects my estimate of your teaching abilities'. OOhhhhh I'm irked. I really need to get a grip and stop feeling quite so annoyed by the fact that teachers aren't always great at the interpersonal stuff.

do they only do two years ks3 then and take 3 to do the GCSE? otherwise how on earth at 12 can u judge if a student can do GCSE? added to that with all the up coming changes I dont know how they will do that as the changes won't necessarily be publishes in time.

added to that I think feedback that is only negative is very unhelpful. I always give at least two positives with one target as a general rule.

I would try and let it go but I too would be extremely annoyed and keep an eye on progress in that subject.

Thanks Minime85. I don't know exactly how it all works. They choose options early next year, apparently so they are having a number of assessments which will be key indicators of whether they get onto the GCSE courses. This wasn't one of them. The next piece they get will be.

We were going to clarify everything at parent's evening in terms of how the GCSE situation works.

The Head of History sounds like a male member in every sense of the word if you catch my drift!

I cited the two stars and a wish type feedback we use in primary school as a great way to go as it highlights clearly the learning points and reinforces the positive achievements. I said to the teacher that I'd just be happier with less emotive comments and more constructive remarks on how dd can do better.

Best of it is, she got a housepoint for the work, paired up with a 'what a pity' feedback comment.

I've decided to let it go (at least as far as school is concerned). As Abitannoyed said, it's not worth damaging our relationship with the school. My DH is going to cop for it tonight though. I'm going to rant at him for at least half an hour when he gets back from his quiz night :)

Obviously there is a level of miss-communication between teacher and head of history over what has happened here. For the head of history to come out saying "there had been no fault found with the teacher in any way, her feedback was fine" says to me that others have moaned as well as you and they are getting defensive about the work set. It is however completely the wrong thing to have said in my opinion, as it actually undermines the teacher involved.
It is interesting that there is an imminent assessment, so this could have been meant as bit of a wake up call for all students as to the standard expected, which has somewhat backfired on the school.

I think something has gone off here admission. Things certainly don't seem to be 'right'.

The teacher said that she didn't want to hand out the assignment to the class as she felt it was too 'open ended' for children of 12/13 but the head of history set it and it had to be issued. Why didn't they give more structured guidance then? Isn't that what teachers are supposed to do?? I work in education, only a lowly TA, but I see a lot of imposed work that's given to children but in Primary, the teachers try to ensure the kids know what they're doing, rather than let them flounder, then beat them around the head with their results.

Grrrr...keep getting mad, then calming down.

My child is one of those kids that just gets on with things. I'm a parent that doesn't generally make a fuss, but my God...I am so tempted to do just that right now!

I am fighting the council estate girl in me that wants to go in there all guns blazing, effing and jeffing, and the aspirational middle class woman I am now, who is currently referring to the school website and the marking and AFL policies.

Calling him a pompous twonk to his face would make me happy for a minute, but then I'd feel like I'd let myself down, so I'll probably not do anything now, but keep a record of all this, just in case things do not improve!

I've told DD she'd better pull her finger out and make sure that next assessment is top drawer. I've offered to help if I can, but I know dd will just do it on her own.

question things you feel need questioning. We had some unusual teachers in my early days. Teachers are not God.

Thanks petteacher. We looked at the angry email I'd penned last night and decided it wasn't the best thing to send. It was as patronising as the one we had received and possibly (definitely) was a bit aggressive. SO...we've looked at the schools' policies on AFL and I'm going to request the marking policy. I've made a note of my discussion with the teacher and I will advise school that I'm not happy at their response, that the teacher has admitted the assignment was not pitched correctly and that we will continue to monitor the situation. We have parents evening in February and we're planning on summating progress from there.

We are also going to look at our daughter's homework again. She is so self sufficient that she hasn't really shared her work with us and I have no doubt that she needs to do more and be more analytical. The objection was really to the lack of constructive criticism, the use of emotive language in feedback and the negativity expressed during class. This was exacerbated by the off-hand approach of the Head of History.

I feel, this morning, that it's a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. It was a small thing we were querying/flagging, but it's turned 'nasty' because of the lack of tact and lack of empathy shown. Now I've calmed down, I can see the reality is we need to keep things factual and we need to tackle what needs to change, rather than score points against the Head of History. He may be a great teacher, we haven't had any dealings with him and I presume he must be to have been made Head, but my word, that man could learn a thing or two about interpersonal relations.

Glad you've calmed down. I wouldn't email the school, I don't think it will help. I think I would fume for a while, as you are doing, but I wouldn't email.

Does she have to take history at GCSE? Does she want to? Otherwise, who cares??

*sorry, HoD obviously a nob, but besides his nobbishness...

I think right to let it go but I'm a secondary teacher and would not put something like that unless linked to how it showed so much promise because of this, this and this and if you do a, b and c you will improve.
I think in any lesson OBS such feedback would be slated. assessment should be formative and focused on how to move learning forward.

Thanks Utah. I have calmed down substantially. And my draft email made me feel better, I think.

Sadly, Iljkk DD does want to take history. We're gonna sit her down and go through the next assessment with her when she's finished it to critique it. DH got A Level History and he'll be able to give her some pointers if she's missed anything.

We've been a bit relaxed with DD and left her to sort herself out with homework and stuff as she's always completed it on time and, up to last year, always got good feedback. This year they've obviously gone up a notch and dd hasn't got there yet. She's 12, though. I think she needs a bit of help thinking outside the box. She's great at doing what she's told to do, but not so good at going the extra mile or thinking around a subject.

Hey ho...she's still only 12. And her English teacher told her today that she's on a 6B for her story writing and encouraged her to enter a competition at school. She's been told that she needs to step up a bit with her essay writing, as she's only a 5B but the feedback was constructive and dd has offered to go through some 11+ books with me. I did them with a boy I tutored last year and I found them really useful. I think she needs to develop her analytical side. Luckily, she's got plenty of time to get her act sorted :)

To be fair, we're just happy that dd is happy in life generally and in education especially and is (sometimes too) confident in her own abilities. I'm just hoping that doesn't get crushed out of her.

Thanks all for the feedback. I do feel a bit better knowing I wasn't being PFBish about things!

Minime85 that was really our complaint. I sorted it with the teacher and said that we'd have been happy if it had been constructive. She said that dd had picked a great subject but didn't go into enough depth and should have covered x, y and z. I said, 'why didn't you say that to her in your feedback' (you mad old bint)!!

The feedback certainly doesn't comply with AFL policy the school purport to have, but I know teachers are just human and can get things wrong. I got annoyed ultimately because the Head of History told us there was nothing wrong with the feedback. The teacher agreed that she could have been more constructive, so that's all that matters.

I think you are the kind of teacher we'd love for DD. And we're lucky that some of the teachers she has are like that (as you can see from my comment about the English teacher :))

I actually think the teacher should not have told anyone she did not want to set this work. She could have given more pointers in class as to what was required without the Head of History knowing. It just needed handling in a better way for the children and not getting involved in a blame game. The marking comment is deflating and not helpful but I am glad you got it sorted and your DD can now move forward.

Crikey you must've spent longer on arguing about ths piece of homework, posting here, composing emails, on the phone, than your DD did on it...

Really, drop your shoulders. You will like some teachers styles. You will dislike others. If you get your knickers in a twist like this all the time you'll be exhausted.

And I would ask MN HQ to edit out your DD's name of your last post

Yikes...it's a nickname...but will do that.

I speed type so it hasn't taken that long Bitoutofpractise. It was really only challenged cos DD was upset at thinking she couldn't take her history GCSE. I rarely get involved with her school life. We've made it through Y7 and part of Y8 without any traumas...small or large. This was just something that hit a soft spot for dd who loves History and a soft spot for me cos the HOH was sooo dismissive. Also, it was mostly done in anger. Today, it's forgotten.

Good. I'll drop mine as well then shall I?