Prep school Y7 and 8

[MrsSteptoe]

Anyone got any experience of this:
I want to talk to prep schools about a place for DS should he not get an offer at 11+ (looking increasingly dodgy - performance just not matching up to expectations, which I had based on all the advice from his teachers. Slightly feel like I can't trust their assessments, which is very destabilising, but that's not the point of this post).
Left to my own devices, I'd probably completely alienate the prep schools by picking up the phone and trying but failing to conceal that it's a back up strategy - constantly sticking my foot in it because I am a useless liar and tend to rely on telling the truth, but I can see that that may not be a good strategy here - but I'm a bit concerned that if I don't call them soon, I might be ringing them in March and finding I've left it too late.
Does anyone have any experience of going this route, and when you need to call preps to try to sort out a Year 7 place if the 11+ goes tits up?
The two preps I had in mind were Newton Prep and Hill House, though that's really only because I don't know anything about any of the others.

Ladymuck, as always you are a font of knowledge. I was feeling terribly all at sea about the difference between CE schools and 13+ schools, though I did think probably that chatting to the prep schools would set me straight. Your post makes it clear that there's a difference, which makes much more sense. Thanks for suggesting Trinity a while back, by the way. Loved it, and registered.
Yes, his teacher was very optimistic in October about his chances of getting level 6 SATs for maths. She's definitely putting him in for it. But in retrospect, I can't quite tie that up with where he is, because he's only on 5C, so that would be a heck of a jump by May. And his writing was only ever a 4A, so ... it's all a bit borderline. But I will admit that if he has a good day on the maths, or raises his game for the exam, then the maths might be enough to do the job.
I think I just get a bit despondent because there are so few kids doing this at DS's school, so I don't have anyone to talk to. and the only other mum who I could talk to about it is the mother of the child who passed Wilson's and Wallington, and I can't face her without feeling resentful, which I don't want to feel because she's incredibly kind and lovely. And I think poor DS is so sick of the whole thing that he's really not trying at all, he just wants to get practice papers over and done with.

Thakns, Mary21 - will have a look!

The whole 11/14 split for boys in london is a total bore - at least with girls you all head to 11+ and then everything - boarding, day, Indy, state is open to you

Both my bits went to an Indy in chelsea that only goes to 11+ and it definitely seems to be getting trickier for boys, especially as a Alice if most advanced leave at 8+. Schools like Emmanuel and harridan which used to be viewed as safe back ups seem to be raising the bar, but I don't really understand where everyone else is meant to go if that happens!

Our head has been sending boys to loom at the new one in Kew, mentioned above, and there is another opening in marble arch. A couple of year ago a bit who sat for 7 11+ schools without joy went to Thimas's Battersea and is now happily at Dulwich. A girl in a similar situation went to Newton and Fulham prep is also worth a loom as they lose a lot of girls at 11+.

I'd say don't panic but call a few preps and don't feel you have to be too cunning - they know why you are calling. Pass over the motivation swiftly "want to explore other options" and get on with asking re places and what they have to offer

Good luck

Oh, and I totally know what you mean about letting off steam. DS2 and I (because that is how it is, sadly) are flailing through 8+ prep and my husband is the opposite of yours (doom, doom, why are you bothering, what is plan C etc) but equally annoying and unwilling to chunter about it all!

Thanks, Michaelahpurple!
Good to know that the general feeling is that I don't have to try to conceal why I'm calling. I know I'd make a mess of it. "explore other options" is a great phrase. Much better than "I need a back up strategy in case Captain Numpty leaves his brain at home on the day".

As far as prep schools go, it may be worth talking to Dulwich and see who feeds to them at 13+. Whilst a number of schools send boys to Whitgift and Trinity at 13, the 3 I named earlier are regarded as the 13+ "feeders".

I suppose it does raise an interesting question around motivation. I wonder if your ds is being held back as he isn't in a peer group who are aiming for the same schools?

The following advice is very non-MN, and may be viewed as child cruelty. There are tutors out there who run intensive classes for groups of kids, where essentially the children sit and do 3 practice papers a day and then mark them, and do this daily for 2 weeks. This is a different approach to one to one tuition, and I think that they both have a place (and I know parents who have done both), but certainly for boys in particular I think they can do with a bit of competition, and also seeing how children improve day after day. If the issue is carelessness rather than gaps, then it may be worth seeing if there are any running near you in the last week of the Christmas holidays.

Obviously once he is in, he is with a different cohort which usually sorts out motivation fairly quickly.

When looking at prep schools, ask thoroughly about streaming/setting in year 7 & 8. And see how they assess him. Ideally you want some CAT scores which will give you a good indication of potential. You don't want him in a class with people who would never pass the 13+ in a million years as that won't address the peer group issue, so look carefully at the 13+ destinations for last year and the year before, and ask which schools the current cohort are sitting for. I don't think that you necessarily want to be around visiting preps just yet. The indies usually send out the "thanks, but no thanks" letters in January, with offers being posted on 13th February.

Yes, Ladymuck, I do believe that the fact that with the exception of one other child, he's the only bugger having to do all this practice paper nonsense isn't helping, and none of the kids he's at school with have even heard of Alleyn's or Dulwich College. I believe it's extremely relevant, and if anyone ever asks me in future, I shall suggest that anyone considering the "state primary, independent secondary" route considers a state primary where a lot of the kids will be trying to get into independent secondaries (given that many of us don't have the money for both).

Thanks too for idea re intensive classes. I've thought before that lack of competition and lack of company are twin factors that aren't helping. By the time you are so committed to this process, what's cruel and what isn't becomes a very permeable concept. Is it crueller to send them off to exams that are likely to result in a rejection, or to put them through something that they don't want to do but that is more likely to result in an offer? I dont' think it's straightforward. But I appreciate the suggestion.

Have a word with Newton Prep - easy to get to by train from all over south London. They prepare for CE but also a range of other 13+ exams set by Dulwich and other schools.

Don't worry too much about catch up. You could have your son do a residential French course over the summer or hire a Latin tutor if needed but it wont.

Well, I think that I can say with a degree of certainty that were you to go down the "intensive" route, you will certainly not be on your own. I was sent details by a NW London tutor of her schedule in the lead up to the grammar exams, and it was astounding. 3 hours after school every night, and 6 hours per day at weekends. Admittedly only for 3 weeks or so. I also saw the number of children signed up! (As an aside it is a real business opportunity).

Of course there will be plenty of children, especially MN children, who don't do that, but again I think they will have had the benefit of a school that has prepared them well.

Having observed the process, I think that if swapping to independent in London you get most value at 8+. Decent grounding in years 4 and first part of year 5, and lots of exam prep. Think DS has got to fit in the entirety of KS2 science, geography and history into the second half of this year. Art, music, drama and sport of course still runs due to scholarships.

I'll start a south London exam thread in January. I can see myself consuming a vast quantity of wine.

Having just marked a NVR paper at 38%, I think in January I'm going to just keep off Mumsnet, as I desperately want to be thrilled for everyone who's been so kind to me with information but I think I'll just be crushed by all the interview conversations if we get 100% rejections! Ho hum, right, another conversation with Captain Blockhead about reading the question...

I am reluctant to give you specific advice on your son but what I would say year 7 and 8 in the prep schools is generally excellent for boys.

The class sizes are smaller, there is opportunity for delegation and leadership roles for the children and confidence can be rebuilt.

There is much more churn at the independent schools than you think even in London. Entry at 13+ is often the easiest.

CE is tricky in the sense it assesses all the different subjects. But a couple of outliers would not dissuade a reasonable school especially if he has other positives in the headmasters report.

Thanks, OddSins. I'm getting good at picking out the relevant bits from all the terrific help and advice I've had on MN. Although in some ways it can make things a bit worse to spend too much time on MN, it's really been invaluable on balance.

I really sympathise with OP's point about how much harder it is for children to happily tackle the work involved when few others are doing it. My 8+ candidate is always bewailing the fact that the rest of his class doesn't have "mummy homework ", only school homework. Of course, a couple of them are doing 8+, but as it is all so stealth , he thinks he is the only sufferer.