Best Schools in London (girls)

[happymum77]

How would you rank these London South London Grammar Schools:

nonsuch high school, cheam
wallington high school for girls
newstead wood school
bexley grammar
townley grammar
tiffin
(I do not list others as I cannot get to them by train)

Also, which are the best independent schools for girls right now?

Day schools:

St. Pauls
City of London School
xxx
xxx
xxx
xxx

Boarding Schools:

Wycombe Abbey School
Cheltenham Ladies
Sevenoaks ?
xxx
xxx
xxx

I need to start planning the school for my little ones.

I wonder how many girls sit for both SPGS and Nonsuch? They are rather different propositions I would have thought.

OP, SPGS have some sample papers on their website which may be worth looking at. I would also draw your attention to the fact that they do ask for details of tutoring on the examination form. It may be worth asking the school how many of their entrants come from "maintained schools" as they are referred to by SPGS!

If the main measure is Oxbridge then there are cheaper and dare I say easier options open. You should also be aware that Oxbridge isn't just full of Paulinas. There may also be some SPGS rejects there.

Happymum77 - do you not realise that all the schools on your list manage to get girls into Oxbridge, despite them being "rejects" in your eyes?! So no, I don't know what you mean! I don't want my DD to go to SPGS (seen too many casualties) so I won't be applying. As others have said, a lot of people actively reject SPGS!! It's not one way traffic.

FWIW, negative comments about SPGS - friendship issues (bitchiness), constant pressure, lots of tutoring...

Boarding schools - Wycombe Abbey, CLC, Downe House, St Marys Calne, Benenden, Brighton College, Sevenoaks, Wellington

Boys schools taking girls in 6th form - Westminster, Kings Wimbledon, Charterhouse

You need to work out what is right for your child. At the end of the day the school will pick your child. They'll all take your money!!

Interesting on the boys issue.

Always wondered how strange it must be for the girl to find herself in the school, where majority are boys, and already fairly integrated in their subgroups, and this system again worries me a lot, from the boys side, and especially the girls side. How were you suppose to integrate with the boys since they basically treat you like aliens... or so it seems.

Thanks for the responses on the other issues. Will do my best for SPGS, having perhaps few boarding schools and grammar schools as insurance, as well as something very close to home (FHS Sloane Square).

How unbelievably short sighted.

SPGS is not the holy grail of good schools. It is a school with exceptional academic results but it is not the only good school with exceptional results in London. I would never send my DD there as it is not good enough for her. I don't like the end product and my child deserves better. Sorry to generalise and I know that many girls are lovely, however, there is a distinct general air of arrogance and superiority that they exude as they take over the pavement, when I am trying to walk along (pushed in the road) with little ones.

I suspect that nearer the time you may realise that other schools are far from "reject" and your daughter may be very lucky to get a place at any of them.

Is this your first experience of independent education? It seems that you think it is about results alone. Some people think that if you pay, then you also pay for the results.

I wonder how your daughter is going to feel with this incredible amount of pressure and expectation placed on her so young? Yes it is good to have aspirations and goals but what if your daughter can't achieve them (for you)? I have seen countless girls crash and burn in the same system for these reasons. Keep it real. They are all good schools. Find one which suits her and not you. You may not have a choice anyway.

Happymum your post is extraordinary. On one side you say you don't want a school full of SPGS rejects, you want them only with the very brightest, on the other you are not sure if your DDs will get in ie they will be rejects. That sort of logic won't get your DDs through the Science comprehension. Plus you seriously underestimate the intelligence of all the parents and girls who reject SPGS for perfectly rational reasons, as one banana has outlined, and positively choose elsewhere as being better for their DCs. And if you have to use rational criteria in terms of results then al these schools get strings of A*s for bright girls and place at Oxbridge in medicine, mostly without the crash and burn and confidence issues some experience at SPGS.

I am really pleased my DD rejected her SPGS place, I am absolutely sure it wasn't the right school for her (and she has 4 A*s in Science and Maths, since that will clearly be all you measure her by, but by the by she is funny, quirky, a passionate Scientist, all qualities nurtured at a school full of bright girls that may or may not have had a few SPGS rejects, noone cared, or ever asked or wanted to know)

In fact if you want a child that carries a chip on her shoulder for life you will make SPGS the only measure of success, a tiny gap in which to succeed and a huge chasm for them to fall into feeling they have failed you. I will concede a girl at one of these schools who did feel she had failed her parents by not getting to SPGS and ended up in the Priory at 14 . That would be the hospital not the school.

Onebanana - you forgot eating disorders in your list

and what do you think of FHS at Sloane Square?

I guess one thing to bear in mind is how will your dd perform in a group of top-performing girls (whether in grammar or independent)? If she is in state school now, then she will be used to being top of a class with a very wide range of abilities. How will she feel being in the middle, or even near the bottom of a class of very bright girls. Is she resilient enough to withstand this? Everyone comes across it as some point, and in one sense it can be a bigger shock to arrive in Oxbridge and realise than everyone else in the room is more intelligent than you. But it is quite a transition for an 11 year old, especially if this is a first dip into independent schooling..

Not every child finds this transition easy, and it is this pressure that people are referring to. It isn't simply a matter of how the child will perform (someone performing at the level to get as far as interview would probably easily come away with a load of A/A*s at GCSE), but it is also where they feel they are in the pecking order of their peers.

Do you know many Paulinas locally?

Agree with Sundae. Would add that the air of superiority and arrogance extends into adult life, if the Paulinas I worked with are anything to go by!

Happymum77 - you are overthinking this!!! Your DD is 9 and you are worried about how boys will interact with her when she goes to Westminster for 6th form!!. If you want to get rid of the "alien issue", go coed all the way through - it mirrors normal life!

Add Latymer Upper to your list.

Boarding schools are very different to day schools - you need to visit to be able to compare them to a day school. And most importantly your DD has to want to go. It's a big step for a 11yr old. I wouldn't necessarily consider some of the boarding schools you've listed as back up to the day schools. My guess is competition to even the most academic ones will be less but that is driven by the £££ - £30,000 per annum plus extras.

FHS Sloane Square is the perfect school for the right girl.....

The trouble is the sort of people who make a big deal as adults of the school they got into at 10 will make any school look bad. Most adults don't talk about their schools as that isn't their crowning achievement.

There might be lots of low key Paulinas but if they don't tell you there's no way of knowing.

Lots of girls go from G&L to Westminster as they want a change. Hardly Spgs rejects.

Can't reiterate strongly enough that education is much broader than exam results, and the right school so much more than the one with highest results. And that the girls at these schools view themselves as far more than SPGS rejects and it is unbelievably shallow of you, OP, to characterise them in such a denigrating way. And children will realise their potential in almost any of the schools and if your heart is set on Oxbridge (and you know what, it shouldn't be as this is your DDs' choice, not yours) it might b better to be the brightest child in a less selective school, rather than one of 80 applicants at SPGS.

But do want to write in defence of SPGS as the OPs singular focus has not surprisingly put up everyone's backs! Like any school it has its faults but it does have some extraordinary teachers and the quality of many of my DDs lessons is amazing and she is inspired on a daily basis by her education there. She loves it, is thriving and happy, and has the nicest, politest bunch of friends there - very multicultural, very mixed socially and very broad previous school education. She is unashamedly academic but I hope continues to be polite and would step off the pavement to let a baby or toddler pass!

Thanks for comments, especially one banana... giving a direct comment. BTW, why not add Marlborough to the list? Also what do you mean... FHS is perfect for the right girl? :) Is the school extra snoby? THats fine with me, as long as my DDs end up reading Medicine at Cambridge :).

Overall, I am getting a lot of heat here from all sides. I am not saying that all kids rejected by SPGS are stupid, if I did, I would not ask you for help with choosing back-up plan. True nobody likes to be rejected, just as nobody likes to be middle of the pack, but the only way to remain top is to be always at the top, ideally without any breaks... but I am sure that we all agree here, even if some parents attack me on the grounds of "humanity".

I think you have misjusged the "feel" of London independent schools. The term "snobby" is outdated and irrelevant. Schools chose good candidates for their school, who will add to it, who will benefit them.

I suspect the term "perfect fo the right girl" refers to the intake at 11 being less competitive, but still competitive, than some of the more academic schools. However, it is still a "great catch" and I would be thrilled if my daughter chose to attend as it produces sound results and friendly girls without too much drama. (Some drama though, these are teenage girls!)

FIW the happiest children I know are the ones who are the "middle of the pack" and experience has taught that they are the ones who go the distance without the weight of perfectionism on their shoulders.

I think you sound like a bit of a fool tbh happymum77.

Jags
Alleyns
Newstead
Dartford Girls' Grammar

I went to SPGS and am perfectly normal. I would also have been very happy at any of the other schools listed, I imagine. I don't often mention where I went to school to other adults as it would be weird, since I am now over forty.

Also, I can't help but agree with Mintyy.

hmmm Cambridge medic from a state school

FWIW, I now do interviews for preclinical for one of the colleges there and SPSG is not one of the overrepresented schools at the interview stage.

Have your daughters already made their mind up to be doctors and study at Cambridge? Although I admire their or your singlemindedness, too rigid a lifeplan from such an early age is unlikely to develop the personality and qualities required for a successful application and certainly not for longer term happiness and success.

Happymum77 - Marlborough is not on the list because it is not a top academic boarding school! It's a lovely all round boarding school. However, it is posh and Kate Middleton went there so that might be an attraction. If you consider schools like Marlborough, Wellington their entry point is 13 not 11 so you need a plan for those 2 years. They also have entry generally via 13+ common entrance (which is very different to 11+)

FHS - perfect for the right girl. I understand you are having difficulty with this concept - basically most people I know choose a school that suits their child rather than shoehorning them into one that is unsuitable.

BTW - I think it can be lonely at the top...there's no one to be friends with....

The problem may not that girls rejected by SPGS are stupid, but that girls accepted by SPGS often think they are cleverer. This attitude seems to filter down from the sort of parents who badly want their child to go to the "best" school, are prepared to tutor to achieve this, and then have to believe that they have made the right decision.

At times this can be quite toxic. DD was a sports activity in East London where one girl was obnoxious to the extent that the coach asked me if DD was OK. My reply was along the lines of, the other girls was at SPGS so what could you expect. The coach had never heard of SPGS and tried to get his head round why being at a certain school was an excuse for arrogant and superior behaviour. And thinking about it, why should it be.

The grapevine has it that a reasonable proportion of parents are now rejecting both SPGS and SPS, boys for Kings Wimbledon, girls for LEH, NCLS, G&L, PHS etc and both for Latymer Upper, on the basis that good students will thrive at any of these schools and that in Real Life having a rounded personality and an ability to work with people from a (slightly) wider range of backgrounds is a good thing. None of those schools will preclude Westminster at sixth form. Indeed, and anecdotally, a number of SPGS pupils were surprised not to get through to interview stage this year, when some of their "reject" contemporaries did. DS is at Westminster and I would hope that part of the selection process would be to identify girls who can adapt quickly, work well with the boys and hit the ground running.

Having long term ambitions for a child - medicine at Cambridge - gives them a lot to live up to. Even if your DDs get there, they may find it is not what they themselves really want. Choosing a school that represents a slightly wider academic pathway can enable options that will suit them better in the long run.

Ok, so I think that the list for independent and boarding schools is now complete and I more or less have some idea which schools to go for.

Any more comments on Francis Holland Sloane Square? Apparently only 8% oxbridge stats, but perhaps I am missing something?

Also how about the grammar schools? Any views to the list I mention?

(i ignore the comments on my singlemindedness and so on, and certainly will not spend time deleting any)

and of course thank you for your comments :) most helpful.

so two remaining points of interest to me are:

1. Francis Holland of Sloane Square

1. some ranking or insight into the South London Grammar Schools.

Thanks :)