Delayed start in Year 9 for August birthday

[happysundays]

DS has August birthday and has been educated at foreign curriculum school for past 6 years, outside UK. He will be 13 next August, so entering Year 9 Sept 2014 and possibly returning to UK (boarding) school. Should we hold him back a year? He is socially aware, bright and academically should be fine. BUT returning to British curriculum and young - maybe we should take the opportunity. Lots of articles relating to Reception delayed starts but can't find much on this age group. Any thoughts appreciated?

I don't think you'll find many secondary schools willing to place a child out of their year group for no good reason. If he is bright, he will be fine.

Hi, as he'll be coming back to private sector (we live abroad) we will have the option luckily. Just not sure it's the best thing for him.

tbh Unless it is a very different curriculum I think he'll catch up , especially if he is in a non or less selective school. The ability range of those joining at 13 from prep schools is wide and plenty of consolidation/revision takes place before GCSE courses begin in earnest. Also can be tricky in terms of sports terms playing out of year .

I think by the time they get to age 12 the August birthday thing really really does not make a difference.
Ds (14) is August birthday. His best friend (and neighbour) when he was little was an October birthday. They were in the same class at school. Best friend was always light years ahead in fine motor skills, social skills, reading, writing, etc.
But once they got to age 9 or 10 ds caught up and has since gone on to overtake.

I honestly don't think the August birthday is a factor by this age.

I'd be astonished if even an independent school will let him go into a lower year group. Independents are well known for their pushy parents (at least ours is) Everyone would be doing it to give their child an educational advantage.

Delayed reception stars are only permitted in Scotland, not England. You can delay the date they start but they still go in with the correct year group, they will just have missed a term or so (which can have a negative rather than a positive effect)

If you're going private you can try it either way & then switch if doesn't suit him, no?

Independent schools will let the drop back a yr without a doubt a friends DS did it. If he's going to a boarding school that starts in yr 9 if yes then won't he'll have to wait till 2015 to start if he drops back a yr. Is he mature both physically and mentally some starting in yr 9 will be very mature some less so, does he have older brothers sisters etc or is he used to mixing with younger siblings etc? At many boarding school all ages live together 13yr old to 18 yrs olds if he's physically very immature and small and mentally immature (that's not a criticism) then he could feel over whelmed, especially if it's his first time boarding and first time in the UK and you not in the UK. It could be a lot to take on. I remember thinking how grown up the 18 yr olds looked in comparison to my 13 yr old when he started at his senior boarding school and he's tall and rather grown up.

LittleRedSquirrel It was the schools we'd spoken to that suggested it!

I think that articles like this are what is making me hesitate. It also seems to apply on the sports field. They are generally the smallest etc and don't seem to progress as far, if recent reports are to be believed (unless he wants to play baseball ). Among the 25 most capped England football players, only one was born between June and August - not that he wants to play football...but cricket - maybe! But, the articles continue to fill me with, not doubt, but certainly pause for thought.

The opportunity is definately there for us. It's a wierd dilemma for me, as it had never crossed my mind before. I really appreciate the comments.

Wow I had no idea. It wouldn't be permitted at my DSs school but admittedly their school is very academically focussed anyway.

If he's bright and socially aware I wouldn't worry about putting in him in with his year group. Remember at that age certainly kids will question why he's older and that could cause him some issues (although you'd hope not). And in terms of sporting achievements he's still not going to be allowed to play for county under 12s if he's 13 for example irrespective of his school year and so it would only help him at school which means nothing in the the real world.

It will also be permanently visible on his CV. Employers may assume that the extra year was for A Level resits for example.

If it helps at all my DS2 is a July baby, the second youngest in his year group, well above average in terms of academics and he's one of the biggest and one of the best in terms of sporting ability. My DS1 is an early spring baby and is tiny and not really focussed on sports at all.

Also you'll find that the curriculum is very different in independent schools anyway and so perhaps not that different to what your DS is used to.

squirrel age affects even normal school sports teams not just at county level. There will be no problems for friendly matches but anything else will be affected by age. We had a fixture replayed as one of the team was technically too old for the team they were playing in although that was the school year they were in.

I'm really not sure about that advice Littleredsquirrel. Employers are hardly likely to calculate what year group someone is in unless you are talking about a huge delay, and if the extra year was for A-level resits it would show as a 3-year gap between GCSE and A-level, which won't be the case here.

Kids are highly unlikely to care that he's a month older than he should be for the year - if that! It might only be 2 or 3 days older if he's end of August!

As for 'the school is academically focussed' and so won't let kids into a different year group, words fail me! The academic benefits of not being an August baby are so crystal clear in the statistics that it amazes me how many people still dismiss them.

It's not all about academic ability either. My DB is a case in point. Academically brilliant, hence September birthday but in the year above where he should have been. Got public school scholarship and top 1st from Oxbridge. So no worries there. BUT socially, he struggled massively, and his first few years of boarding in particular were incredibly difficult. I'm not sure his social confidence has ever recovered.

I'm sure there are umpteen cases of summer birthdays who do fine - they always come up on this kind of thread - but statistically, there's no question that there is an issue. It's down to your feeling about it when it comes down to it. No need to delay him if your gut says he'll be fine, but in many cases there are certainly sound reasons for considering it.

We came back from overseas several years ago and I was in a similar position as you. DD3 has a late June birthday, but born 8 weeks early. She was 5 when she started school here having only done the equivalent of nursery before. Her primary school would only take her straight into year 1 and she struggled, particularly with maths. English was fine and still is, but she still has problems with maths (although has just come home thrilled because she managed 74% in a practice GCSE paper today) and I do think that her struggling when the other children weren't did have an impact on her.
I so wish we had put her straight into her independent school where she would have been given the option of starting in reception, I really believe she would be far more confident in her abilities now. She's bright (it's a selective school), but she doesn't believe she is.
Is it only this country which is so hung up on children being in the 'correct' age group? Where we were before was much more flexible, especially when the birthday was close to the 'cut off'.
I would do what someone else suggested - take him for a trial day at the school you're considering and see what the teachers say. They should be honest with you and you can make your decision from there.

Thank you so much for all your comments. Trial day sounds like a great idea.

GirlTimeThree - the argument for keeping students in their correct year is that it makes teachers teach the whole range of abilities and maturities, rather than having the option of keeping a child down.
I also wouldn't blame a girls lack of confidence in Maths on coming from abroad and being young for her year. There is a lot of research to show the huge amount of negative messages that are given to girls and their ability in maths.

Friends in the US were told to start their perfectly able/bright summer born DD a year down, because "all the summer born boys will be kept down" and that otherwise she would be 11 in a class with "huge 13 year old boys".

Firstly, being educated out of year is really not that uncommon in the private system. It may not be the norm, but in boys schools in particular there may be one boy in a year group. Even for many of the team sports you can play one year out from your normal age. Individual sports eg swimming will have different rules though.

The difference between being one of the oldest in the class and one of the youngest can be significant, and the offer is a tempting one, especially as you have the cover of coming into the UK system. But you may look at senior schools differently from the eyes of a parent with one of the oldest, the most mature, and someone with an extra year of schooling under their belt, vs being the parents of someone who is young. One of the reasons that many private school parents do not hold back their children is that they would be repeating a year, which is dull. You would need to think carefully about what your child would be doing in that extra year.

I was educated out of year for most of my secondary and tertiary schooling - it has never been picked up by an employer, and in this age of gap years/4 year courses etc it is often the case that new graduates span a 3 year age range.

That said, this is a decision which must be made with the individual child in mind. You describe your son as "socially aware, bright and academically should be fine". It doesn't sound therefore as if there are huge advantages in keeping him down (whereas I know friends who have considered it for their less socially aware son who struggles with maths say). In fact there is a risk that he may be insufficiently challenged.

Mummytime, I agree re the confidence issue, but I do believe that if she hadn't missed that first year of learning number bonds etc, she wouldn't have the problems she's subsequently had. I don't think it's messages she's been given either - she's been in a girls' school since she was six where there's a reasonably wide range of ability and she's in the middle of that range. I still feel that she would have been better being able to start in reception and would be more confident generally as a result. I can see that if a teacher really can teach a wide range of abilities and maturity levels, that's great, but it didn't work in our primary school where the teacher was away more than she was there and classes were taken by the TA.
Obviously, what happened to your friends in the US wasn't good, but it doesn't have to be like that. DD1's birthday is early Sept and schools were offering to take her a year early because she was ready, but we decided that she was being supported well at nursery and to leave her there for another year. If she hadn't been so well supported we may have made a different decision. DD2 has a May birthday and has never had a problem, so I can see it from all sides, but I wish there was more flexibility and the needs of the individual child were considered more than chronological age.

My daughter was born early at the end of August, so should have been in the following year. She will be going in Year 9 this year.

She is working towards levels 7.5/7.75 at the end of KS3 in Maths, English & Science which I understand, if she continues to work hard, could give her an A at GCSE level. She hates languages and has asked her tutor if she has to do one in KS4 and the tutor's reaction as, why wouldn't you want to do both French and Spanish, you are capable of getting an A* in them (turns out they are compulsory as she's doing fast track). I know others parents hope/expect more, but any child who could leave school with say 3-5 As has done really well. What I'm saying is that despite being younger, she is holding her own.

I think that the OP was talking about a child who has been educated abroad with a different curriculum. In such cases independent schools do agree to children being down a year. It is quite normal and does not appear to have any lasting issues later on. I would talk to the schools you are interested in and see what they say. I think boarding schools are more flexible too.

LSS yes you are right. He hasn't been following a british curriculum for 5 years now. Does a french curriculum taught entirely in french (apart from languages, such as English ) so wouldn't be repeating anything he's done before.
As an aside, this my first time on mumsnet and I love the feeback that is on offer! Thank you everyone.

If he does a french curriculum, it's worth bearing in mind that he'll probably be way ahead on basic skills, especially in maths and grammar, compared to the UK system, but his UK counterparts will have spent a lot longer on the more creative aspects of the curriculum. Unless things have changed significantly in the last generation in France, which I don't think they have! (When I was at school, I had the same French literature textbooks as my mum in the 1950s, and my cousins' kids still use the same ones today ...)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GCSE league tables include all students aged 16 on 31 August of a particular year for the stats, regardless of what year group they are in. So if you have an overage child in Y10 who has not yet taken GCSE's, this child will be included in the school stats with the Y11's as failing to get any GCSE's.

This is not a problem for the individual child. For a school that's not bothered about league tables, this is not an issue either. But most schools do worry about league tables, because they are marketing tools.

That is why I have heard that indie schools are often reluctant to back year. I hope I am wrong.

It is only the DofE league tables which does that. The league tables produced by the Times, FT, Torygraph etc tend to use the yeargroup data. But it does explain why there is always a significant discrepancy between the league tables for independent schools.

Have the school assessed his work? If they have assessed his current work and feel he needs an extra year to consolidate before he chooses his GCSEs it's probably worth doing. My nephew (winter born) is dyslexic & dyspraxic & stayed down a year at 6, he stayed in the lower year group throughout his education & it has not been a problem.

I have heard that children coming from the French system need tutoring before sitting entry exams for competitive schools as the styles of teaching are different.