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Secondary education

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Original poster

How long from beginner to grade one in an instrument?

29 replies

Erebus · 18/11/2013 20:17

How long is a piece of string?!

DS1 is 14 and is just starting the sax. He's doing it as his 'skill' for D of E (his idea).

In terms of 'targets', how long might it realistically take him to do grade one? He's not musically gifted as such but has grade 1 piano (a few years ago, now). He hasn't played woodwind before, but he'll practice reasonably diligently (but not hour after hour, I can assure you!).

Can I respectfully ask that I'm not inundated with people doing this Shock at the very idea that something as beeodiful as making music should be graded or -horror- that a DC's enjoyment of the sheer love of learning a musical instrument should be despicably subverted by the coarse concept of quantifying his achievement- thanks (often said by parents of DC with grade 8 at 11), but this is a) about something he wants a shot at, and b) a skill he can demonstrate measurable progress in for his D of E. If it leads to New Orleans, so be it, but I'm not going to pretend there are many esoteric reasons for him doing it!

Can you tell I've been on MN for a while?!

I just want to know if taking grade one is a reasonable level of achievement in a year, say? Say?

OP posts:
Ladymuck · 18/11/2013 20:37

With lots of grade 1 certificates dotted round the house, I would say that it depends as much on the teacher as the pupil, but 3-4 terms is reasonable. The timing of the exams themselves, together with the deadline for registering can be an issue, with some teachers avoiding summer term grades.

moldingsunbeams · 18/11/2013 20:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

abittoofat · 18/11/2013 21:14

Yeah - I reckon around a year. At 14, and already having knowledge of notation, rhythm etc, maybe sooner.
I think thats a great idea for D of E. Good for him. I hope he enjoys it.
I would try and get him playing with other people as soon as possible.

abittoofat · 18/11/2013 21:18

Love the MN replies prediction by the way!
"Well, of course, my dd (age 3) took grade 1 after 2 weeks!!! But of course we do music for the joy of it. It will be her career though when she's 16" !!!!!!!!!

sorry - couldn't resist it!!!!!

MrsSteptoe · 18/11/2013 21:25

DS is learning sax and is dying to do his grade 1. Nothing wrong with having a goal, and an achievement. The only reason I'm not encouraging it at the moment is he's got enough on his plate with practice papers for the 11+. Like others on this thread, I'd have thought a year would be plenty, though that's based on a somewhat ancient memory of my own grades. If he's got a good ear for the aural tests, it helps - if you're good at them, you can get full marks at grade 1, which compensates for any fluffed fingering or sudden squeaky bits...

Original poster
Erebus · 18/11/2013 21:28

Grin Sorry I sounded a bit chippy in my OP, and thanks everyone for very useful replies!

I have just tended to find that quite a few of what seem like reasonable OPs I've seen over time have tended to get bogged down by people who won't answer the question (beggaring the question "Why reply at all?!") but take the topic waaay off course into the sphere of their own hobby horse, or they use it to big up their own DC, and by implication, denigrate the OP's! What only one instrument at 14? Mine have achieved blah, blah, blah... etc

I'm pleased DS is doing D of E (again, his choice when offered) as a) it gets him off his arse and b) it's a good thing to be involved in and achieve. Ironically, in fact, he has already, over the past 5-8 years, achieved much of what Bronze requires in terms of learning an instrument for 3 months (2 years, in fact), sport (karate, 5 belts, and archery, 2 years); plus 8 years of Scouting- but of course, none of it is retrospective!

OP posts:
Talkinpeace · 18/11/2013 21:37

if he's 14 and motivated and not as tone deaf as Jeremy Hardy he should be absolutely fine.
What a splendid thing to do for DofE

stillenacht · 18/11/2013 21:39

At 14, about 6-8 monthsSmile

circular · 18/11/2013 22:22

About a year per grade is pretty average.

If its Bronze DofE, one of the sections is 6 months, and they can have one retrospective up to 3 months prior to registration.
DD1 did piano as her skill for Bronze DifE. Set a target with her teacher to learn the pieces for her next grade in 6 months - but the grade is more than just the pieces of course.

Have fun!

Lancelottie · 19/11/2013 08:46

As he already has a grade 1, he should be in with a good shot at doing it in a year.

(and piano is far harder than wind, in my view and that of DS, who has grade 6 tuba but is still battling to play two hands at once on piano)

Lancelottie · 19/11/2013 08:47

Sorry, sorry, that wasn't meant to be a tuba-boast but an 'impressed by anyone who can do two clefs at once' post!

Original poster
Erebus · 19/11/2013 08:58

Lancelottie - go sit on the naughty step!

No, that sort of statement of fact (your DS having grade 6 tuba) is perfectly reasonable within the context of 'but he's struggling with a different music skill'! It's that implication that you have somehow failed your child/your child is a dunce because they're, well, ordinary rather than MN gifted that grates!

Again, thanks to all who have helped and understood what I'm getting at, here!

OP posts:
Original poster
Erebus · 19/11/2013 09:01

DS is planning on doing the volunteering for 6 months (Young Leader in a Scout Troop), sport for 3 months (Actually show some progress at the badminton club he's been going to for a year) and the musical instrument as a skill. He shouldn't have much problem with the expedition as he's done loads with Scouts, but, of course, there may be DC in his group who've never slept without a night-light and certainly never camped! And there is a strong element of Teamwork required in the latter!

OP posts:
Nacster · 19/11/2013 09:05

It depends on the kid.

I taught one boy who got to Grade 5 in 18 months, from the first time he lifted a flute. Actually, I say taught, more accurately stood there and went Shock then wept with joy. Grin He practiced 4+ hours a day, remarkable.

My boy has just started piano with me, he's 8 and very quick, I think he'll be there by summer if the enthusiasm sticks - DD has been doing flute for 18 months and is just about at "thinking about doing grade 1 at some point" stage. My pupils have taken anything from 8 months to 2 years to get there!

I think a general sort of average IME is about a year, IF they practice (even 10-15 mins a day to start with.)

With woodwind it's useful if you can also improvise, and the ABRSM do a Jazz syllabus that's great for that - here

LinseyBluthFunke · 19/11/2013 09:28

I think the older they are the faster they can get to grade one. DS1 started violin at 11, it took him 8 months to get to grade one with minimal practice (it was his first instrument). DS2 started much younger, had been playing for 18 months but will probably need another year to get to that standard.

missinglalaland · 19/11/2013 09:46

How often are his lessons and how long are his lessons?

My dd, still in primary school, took violin lessons for nearly two years. It wasn't progressing much. Her lessons were 15 min, once a week, during term time. She was losing motivation, and we had a chance for her to take hour long lessons with her teacher once a week after school. After two months, she passed her grade 1 exam with merit.

The extra time with a tutor one on one made a huge difference. She came out feeling confident, secure about what she needed to practise at home. With hour long lessons, she was happy to practise about four times a week for 10 to 20 min at a time which also helped.

She is back down to 15 min lessons, but has kept up her habit of practice. We will have to see how soon she gets her grade 2. I am sure her spectacular, in our eyes, progress was part practice at home and part extra tutor time.

I am completely unmusical. But, it seems to me, that tutor input us crucial at the beginning. It is hard to go home and put in the practice time needed when you are completely confused and don't know where to begin.

Enb76 · 19/11/2013 09:49

at 14, with a bit of dedication, about 6 months max on a wind instrument.

slickrick · 19/11/2013 09:57

It depends how much they practice DD did 3 piano grades in a year and then gave it up much to mine and her teachers annoyance.

DeWe · 19/11/2013 09:59

It does vary as to the instrument, but I think the Sax would be one of the easier ones.
Dd1 took 2 years to get to grade 1 on the paino. 1 year to do grade 2 singing.
Dd2 took 1 year to get to grade 1 (distinction too!) on the trumpet, 1 year to get to grade 1 singing.

I did violin at juniors. It took me 4.5 terms to get to grade 2.

All these were started age 7-9, so he'll have the benefit of age there. Practice for all of us was about 10-20 minutes a day.

Nothingtosay · 19/11/2013 10:01

Why doesn't he record himself now when he's just starting out and then again in six months?

Then you don't need any grades you can just hear the difference.

Lancelottie · 19/11/2013 10:38

Good idea! I cherish the recording of teeny DS going 'oomph... oomph... splurt' down his instrument with a huge triumphant beam on his face, and no concern about tunefulness.

A 14-yr-old might be a bit more self-conscious about it, though.

RaspberryLemonPavlova · 19/11/2013 20:14

But he doesn't have to reach Grade 1 for his Dof E to show progress surely? Just show improvement over 3 months? Which isn't to say he can't aim for his Grade 1 still anyway.

Original poster
Erebus · 20/11/2013 08:08

No, he doesn't have to reach grade 1 but we have to pay for a year's tuition in one go, anyway!

OP posts:
RaspberryLemonPavlova · 20/11/2013 22:58

Oh I see. That makes more sense. Well I would have thought, with practice, he had every chance of reaching Grade 1 within that time. Possibly even Grade 2 given his previous knowledge.

Ferguson · 21/11/2013 19:11

Hi again (we met before!)

Yes, as others have said, I would say six months for Grade 1, and Grade 2 in another six months (or if he wants the challenge, skip 2, and go straight to Grade 3.)

You can probably get the syllabus off web site. What sort of music does he like? And the sooner he can get to join some sort of band or ensemble, that will boost practice and motivation. (You never did tell me if it's Alto or Tenor?)