end of my tether with 16yr old DS, sort of AIBU I suppose

[miggy]

DS2 is very charming and very lovely, people are often telling me this in an unsolicited way BUT he is also a totally lazy peice of work happy to charm and lie his way out of everything. He is at a very expensive very selective school and did zero work for his GCSE, he got what would generally be considered good results but only because the school gives them fantastic grounding, not the results he could have got if he had done any work. The one subject that actually required solid work and was not possible to blag and wing it, he got a d (the only D in any subject in the school!)
He has been told that he is staying on there under sufferance and will be removed to sixth form college if he does not pick his ideas up. His first two interim reports were poor (missing homeworks etc) but have just had Parents evening and apart from the one teacher who had him for last three years (and one of whose subjects was the D), the teachers comments were bland and of the sort "well he could do more reading around etc". The teacher who knows him said "well yes DS you have been charming and lovely in lessons this week and handed in your prep but then you knew parents evening was coming up" What Im waffling about I suppose is that the teachers wont give him a kick up the backside.
When I say he is not workin hard enough I mean he is doing literally no work at home. This weekend for instance he has done one 750 word essay (because I insisted he emailed it to me by tonight ) and "reading"
Already has no xbox and is grounded for lieing a few weeks ago. Given he has a phone however I cant get rid of utube/facebook.
Have told him tonight that he now has to work at the Kitchen table, 1hr 30 mins every evening and 3 hrs each weekend day or I am giving in notice at the end of term and moving him at xmas
We resent paying she loads of money for him to piss about having a nice time but on the other hand I feel I would be ruining his chances in life if I pull him out. If he stays where he is, he will get 3 or 4 A levels probably Bs (at current level of work) , if he goes to sixth form college with less intensive teaching and supervision I think he will be lucky to get anything.
Also will he always feel resentful as DS1 went all through same school and DD will (but they are both self motivated and work bloody hard)
Its so hard as he can be so lovely, its honestly like living with a charming sociopath. He makes you think you are being the unreasonable one.

a) unplug the router unless he is on a computer at a public table with you sat there
b) send him to the 6th form college. They will scare the crap out of him because he'll be surrounded by motivated kids whose parents are not able / willing to cough up.

Forcing DCs to work for fixed periods is impossible at 6, you can't glue a 16y to a chair.

You may feel he's wasted your money if he gets 3Bs, but he may not.

You need to find out what he wants to, and what grades he needs. He needs a carrot, a course to aim for, not a stick.

ps
my v selective v expensive school cashed my parents cheques all the way through the train wreck of my A levels
nowadays because of leage tables they are likely to "invite him to seek other options" before the exams but take your money right up till then

go talk to the college and see what they think they can do
I'm spoilt, our local ones are absolutely fab
but they take no prisoners with lazy kids

Thanks
unplugging Router no good as DD needs internet as she is actually trying to do her prep, plus his phone can tether as a hotspot (could confiscate that I suppose)
Starballbunny, if he genuinely put in the slightest bit of effort I would be thrilled if he got those results, its not the results its the lack of effort and its my money not his thats being wasted.
He wants to do law (will make fab lawyer of the type like that guy who gets people off driving offences as has no morals and can lie through his teeth!). He could easily have gone to a russell group uni but that is looking unlikely now. There is no carrot big enough sadly

phone is on the kitchen counter until all work is done
end of
same rule applies to the whole household (yes, you as well)
line them up
router off unless phones in view and work being done
there are sticks, carrots and carrot sticks
your big stick is a swift tour round the 6th form college any day next week

he has half a term to pull his finger out or spend the next five terms being shown up as a lazy arsed ex private school boy

carrot = financial independence ....

Does he understand the correlation between his results and his potential earning in the future?

Remove the smart phone and replace with a cheapo Nokia banger that only does calls and texts, that way your hard working DD can still have her Internet access.

Definitely put the threat of 6th form college into play.

I would suggest some work experience/time talking to someone working as lawyer now. I knew a few people at university/school who went down the law path with outstanding grades (4/5 As), top notch degrees and incredible CVs who found it incredibly difficult to get a pupillage. Sorry to be harsh but 3 Bs and a non russell group degree will not cut it and he needs to realise that quick.

This sounds so much like ours who did reasonably well in gcse's considering he didn't revise much! 7A's 5bs and 1C. He thought he could approach As in the same way - he had U,E,D,D. He had these grades with £5000 worth of tuition. We were gutted. He's now doing just 2 Alevels and I think he finds these too much work, what gets me is that he's very capable but is sooooo lazy! I don't know what he's going to do next August if he doesn't pick up on these grades. I have worried so much about this that I have had to go to the dr's as I'm so stressed. I don't think that we should be worried for them at this age, but as parents you can't help but worry, so miggy i honestly feel for you!

Being compared to high achieving siblings is hardly motivational.

Have you spoken to him? Found out why he isn't working?

He is old enough now to deal with the consequences of choices he makes. You banging on and imposing the sorts of sanctions and rules that would normally be applied to a 10 year old will not help.

Maybe a change of environment would be the making of him. My DH went to one of the top super selective grammars in the country. He came out at 16 with 2 O levels. Left (advised to leave!). Went to sixth form college and thrived. He developed a love of learning and grew up! Got 3 A grades for A levels, went to Uni, did Masters.

6th form colleges are not the second rate (punishment) option that you seem to think they are. The young people, often from families where the luxury of private education would never be an option, are hardworking and appreciate the chance they have to improve their lives,

Thanks all
I think I may cut and paste some of these answers and show him.
Shady I'm sorry you are so stressed about your ds, as you say one would expect to be able to not worry about education at this point.
Raisinboys, I don't think I ever said I compared him to high achieving siblings, I said that his siblings worked hard and were self motivated, which is the truth. He is equally bright and capable and has talents in other areas, music/sport/ riding, that they don't have and which are celebrated as much as their successes. The fact that he is not high achieving academically is entirely due to his laziness.
Please don't feel that I am saying sixth form college is a second rate option and a punishment because of that. It would be a punishment because he loves his current school and his mates . He would get worse results purely because he would be able to get away with doing even less work ( I am assuming sixth form colleges are more like university type courses where one takes responsibility for ones own learning)

I'm afraid your right not a chance of getting to do law at a RG unless he works and no chance of staying on a law course if he doesn't continue to work.

I'm a RG biolochemist and my early morning coffee mates, as a Postgrad were mature law conversion students. Their reading matter made neat chemical equations look fun

What is his source of income? Who/what pays for his phone?

Don't despair. I used to read enviously about other people saying that their DC suddenly 'got it' and knuckled down to work for their GCSE. DS never really clicked until U6 when he made the connection between grades and University choices and his Future ... and the connection between effort-in and grades-out.

The teacher who knows him said "well yes DS you have been charming and lovely in lessons this week and handed in your prep but then you knew parents evening was coming up"
You could see this as a positive - that he can up his game when necessary. Ideally, he should realise that 'when necessary' is most of the time as you can't do A Levels on a wing and a prayer, like you can with GCSE. Try to accentuate the positive whilst making him fully aware that you are not totally gullible. I used to give DS pocket money calculated purely on his effort and achievement grades.

Has he done proper work experience? That was the game-changer for DS (who was also a charmer thinking of Law, but has now gone in a different people manipulation management direction).

not a chance of getting to do law at a RG unless he works

Law is very competitive to get into. You need a Personal Statement reference which says something along the lines of "he is the best student this school can offer". The teachers aren't going to say that atm. He needs to start schmoozing now to get that reference in a year's time. The best way to schmooze is to be that "best student"! Fake it til you make it.

I think you are wasting your time and energy and you should refocus your efforts.

Rather than trying to force him to study (which can never really work), take a step back and ask him what he wants to do. Point out that the current situation isn't working for anyone and get him to think through the options.

If he doesn't want to do the work, does he want to leave his current school? If so, what does he want to do instead? Tell him that as long as his plans have an opportunity for progression you will support him.

At 16, he is old enough to marry and join the army, the choices he makes will be with him for the rest of his life, and it is time you stepped back and let him make the decisions as he'll be the one living with the consequences.

Miggy - I could have written an almost identical post about ds1 - he's charming, exceptionally bright, sporty, has so much going for him.

He managed to wing his way through GCSEs although missed his target of all As (mix of As, As and a couple of Bs) - he said he'd learned his lesson - ha!

He's started IB at the 6th form of his school and initially all seemed to be well - however he's started to slip and has been missing deadlines and generally not trying very hard

His grades before half term were mediocre - not awful but not great and his effort grades were almost all 'needs improvement'. He's farted about all half term playing Xbox and watching rubbish on YouTube and last night he told me he still had three major pieces of work outstanding

Xbox has gone, I've taken Internet access off his phone, he's got a job on Saturday mornings so any docking of allowance will have minimal effect - I'm getting v stressed and nothing's having any effect - he seems to think he can charm and wing his way through life ...

If he has an iPhone, you can certainly restrict it so that he can't access Facebook or YouTube on it.

If his results are dismal, will be be allowed to progress to Y13? My school would boot him out.

I would get him researching fall-backs. If he gets booted out of college, what is his plan? If he doesn't get onto a decent law course, what's his plan? With tuition fees what they are, I would be telling him that I wouldn't be financing any 'filler' Uni courses and that he'd be getting a job. Then get him looking up jobs in the paper to see how little is out there for him.

At the moment, failing is easy and comfortable. If he realises that won't be continuing, it might give him the motivation he needs.

Its the age unfortunately particularly for this generation, they are all lazy and expect everything for little or no work.

Is he spending a lot of time with friends or going to parties?

As others have said, even if you get through the competitive admissions process, law school and getting a pupilage / articles, studying law at is more than 70% boredom, and even the job itself, whatever your preconceptions may be, requires a lot of boring hard work, especially in the city firms who treat their junior staff as canon fodder subjecting them to inhuman hours. I have worked with commercial lawyers a lot as a senior manager on share flotations, mergers, investment projects etc. and I have never envied them their career. It really isn't a career in which charm will get you very far without a lot of hard and boring meticulous work as well. For criminal lawyers the same applies but there isn't much money in it either..... It isn't all about whisking out the killer argument at the eleventh hour, it is more about pouring over every detail of a case, the law, contracts. My DD was put off by shadowing a barrister in an armed robbery case, a solid week going through mobile phone records wasn't quite what she anticipated.....

I think lots of us went through a lazy self indulgent phase when younger speaks for herself and we were lucky enough to be able to get it together at the end of Upper Sixth when reality hit. Sadly that isn't an option anymore. I agree with others you can't force him to work but you can stop / threaten to stop subsidising his easy life. You sound as if you forgive a lot for his charm but maybe you have unconsciously taught him that charm is a tool that will get him everywhere. Sadly it won't and time to disabuse him of that idea. Sadly though I agree with others he needs to find his own motivation, and you can only facilitate that process by talking, not making it easier etc.

Does he even find what he is doing interesting? It always came as a bit of a shock when I was younger and finally stopped the procrastination and got my head down to find that my subjects were really interesting. I would add to what others have said above, try talking to him about what he is doing, discuss the issues in his essays. My DD1 is a Scientist and I am not, yet we have all sorts of fascinating discussions on everything from ethics to Richard Fenniman to biohacking, if he isn't that interested then maybe he should be rethinking his options.

slickrick No it isn't "kids these days", I knew plenty who were exactly the same at school, and because you could get in to a RG for competitive courses with Bs and Cs, at uni too.

My DDs and their peers have to work an awful lot harder than my generation to achieve the same ends and there is no forgiveness for maturing or finding your motivation late.

"Its the age unfortunately particularly for this generation, they are all lazy and expect everything for little or no work."

No it isn't. By dcs are not like this at all; nor are their friends.

And god forbid a teenager would be spending time with friends or going to parties......

My DDS also spend time with friends and going to parties, galleries, the theatre etc. but without compromising the hard work they have had to do to get good grades at AS and A level and get on the courses they want at the unis they want(ed). Thank goodness or I would be really worried Life is about balance isn't it?

Gosh umm... yes I guess there are 2 routes here- poke hard, remove all technology that isn't directly related to work ( yes including the precious phone - he doesn't need it when working) as we do at times with my 14yr old ( who isn't lazy, just poor at prioritising and will do home work at midnight after the stuff she wants to do! but she's 14..)

Or try to bring it up to and adult to adult transaction level. What does he want to do with life, what does he need to do to get there, yes how can you help him BUT he needs to do it and take charge. Balance is vital- learn to party AND work- learn that now not when at uni.

Being a 6th former studying academic subjects is bloody hard work and TBH your son needs to actually work this one out- he does know as he can do it, but taking it on as a long term thing - it's a huge mind shift.

The adult to adult model is what you need to work towards but it may not be easy.

I suspect he is going to end up leaving his current school before A levels so you may as well get it done sooner rather than later. It sound to me as though the school are happy to take your money but unwilling to put the effort in with him.
You can't make him do the sort of work needed to get stellar A levels though. He has to want to.