PE just as I remember it. What a shame.

[EverythingUnderControl]

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Apparently those shining stars of the class still get to choose the teams. Every time. Lesson after lesson after lesson ad infinitum. This actually translates into 'choose all your best mates whilst seizing that irresistible and golden opportunity to publicly exclude anyone not considered A list du jour' in the ever changing and cruel popularity contest that is year 10.

Abusive and insulting comments still bellowed extensively and full blast at anyone perceived not to be performing as required? Of course.

PE teachers tolerating, encouraging and overlooking the above? You bet.

Being given 30 seconds to get changed in a smelly changing room before the wrath of said PE teacher is unleashed? Well it wouldn't be PE without it, would it?

Ah yes, thankfully the awful enforced showers of yore are no more. Well that's something at least, I suppose. I used to have the added humiliation of a communal shower to endure. But many aspects are alive and well 35 years down the line.

Dd (15) told me forlornly that today's PE 'lesson' was all of the above and often is for her. The thing is dd isn't exactly hopeless when it comes to sport but hey, why let a small detail like that get in the way now that she's sunk forever under the PE teacher's benevolent gaze? Her problem here is that she's quiet. Un-pushy. Doesn't stand out where a loud gob is a useful accessory. We don't seem to be able to relate too well to quieter people in PE at our school.

The added irony is that as a family we've always encouraged our dc to be very active by involving them in all kinds of sports. Although unsurprisingly dd is much less keen nowadays. I wondered why, now I guess I know.

Why is PE core subject? Why not let those that so wish just to drop it? They can then avoid the ritual humiliation and leave those that think are god's gift to the world of sport bask in uninterrupted glory without ever having to utter the sneering words 'Oh miss, do I have to be with her..?'

Dd would welcome the chance to go and partake further in any one of the many other lessons she's good at. Lessons that strangely don't involve a teacher who conveniently turns a blind eye to what is little more than a nasty popularity contest with a large dose of humiliation to boot

Ah yes, but the constant message we hear is that sport is good. Desirable for all. So it astounds me that post Olympics when there was so much enthusiasm and bon homie sloshing about, plans for more funding to encourage everyone, (especially for this age group) to get active, join in, be sporty blah blah blah, that this negative aspect persists.

Is this the default for PE at school? Sad if school PE is your main (for some their only) experience of it. If your face doesn't fit you're stuffed.

Hardly an endorsement for an activity that says it wants to be inclusive. The only message dd gets repeatedly is that she must be crap at sport, which clicks the switch firmly off in the 'things I might enjoy' category; probably for years to come.

As a parent I'm often pointing out to dc that school isn't ever going to be a bowl of cherries and that much of what they may dislike about it is frankly tough. Dc know that life isn't always going to be fair, but this disappoints me hugely. Not because it's not fair, but because it's plain mean and because that's exactly how I remember PE at school and I thought - assumed - things surely must have changed and they haven't. Not one iota. Despite all the fanfare and bigging it up in the media and all the famous sports people saying give it a go. It falls at the first hurdle for some kids in the dubious environment of the PE lesson.

I hope there are inspirational, innovative and inclusive teachers of this subject in some quarters. Sadly not for us. Such a shame that sport, at our school anyway, so often struggles to be the most important thing of all: sporting.

At DD1's school they set early for PE.

Top half for the good, competitive ones.
Lower half for the less good, or less competitive.
Worked really well.

Then in y10&y11 they have a range of sports to choose from to help them find something they might want to do to be 'active for life'. eg table tennis, zumba, trampoline as well as football, netball etc.

Works really well for uncoordinated DD1.

OP. I agree with every work you write! Not only did the humiliation make me hate sport - I still do, won't even watch it - but I meanly rejoiced years later when I learned that my chief tormentor had failed her nursing finals. My children find things much the same

Teen and tween - your dd's school sounds fab.

I was crap at PE, always picked last, hate sport to this day.
Don't even start me on the ritual humiliation that is sports day. My children are both academic. Shall we have a day where the children sit and do an academic competition in front of ALL the parents so my dc can shine and the less able children can feel like crap? As if.

Don't get me wrong, it's great for the children who are good at sport to be given an opportunity to achieve and be proud but not at the cost of others.
Last year dd came home after sports day. 'How was it?' I asked (dh went, I was working) . 'I came last in every race' she said. Brilliant

Dc are both rubbish. DS plays football but mainly for the social side of it. Dd does dance. We take them swimming and walking and dh plays football and cricket with them in the garden. I want them to be active adults but that will NEVER happen if they are subjected to the sort of lessons that the OP describes

I feel really and also for your dd, OP. It should not be this way. This is a shocking reflection on her school's policies, and goes much higher than a PE teacher's attitude. The other children should not be allowed to make such comments and to always choose that way.

I think you should take this to the Head.

This is what it can and should be like:
(For background, PE for me was exactly as you describe, and I feared for my unsporty, unco-ordinated, stickler-for-rules, pedantic ds when he started 2ry)
PE lessons are not set, but the pupils levels are constantly assessed and they are assigned to teams in such a way that mostly they play with others of the same level, but sometimes with others of different levels. They are all taught each game and each skill from scratch. When they started rugby they were given free choice of 'full' rugby from day one, or non-contact tag-rugby, with no comment or judgement over their choice. Divvying-up for teams is a rare occurrence, and only ever when playing in same-ability teams.

Ds, for the first time, enjoyed team sports. He was assessed at a 3c in Y7 (ie well below the level expected at the end of KS2) and to my utter astonishment his PE teacher's attitude at Parents' Evening was not "X must pull his socks up and work harder" but "X tries his best and makes a good effort during PE classes. He's a strategist, and is very good at planning tactics." He then went on to discuss what physical activities ds particularly enjoyed and to encourage him to continue with them.

This year ds started full-contact rugby(which I had been dreading) and he has been enjoying it and is feeling confident about it.

That is what school sports should be like. It is about the school's attitude to nurturing each pupil according to their needs and abilities, which is why I think you should speak to the Head about the vile attitudes that your dd is wilting under.

You need to speak to the teacher. PE isn't like that in all schools at all. I think they should do some form of PE every day though. But in a supportive and not always competitive environment. Our local comp actually has a gym where students can exercise individually which is good.

I feel really sorry for your dd I was the same in school and eventually I just stopped going to pe and my physics teacher let me hide it out in his classroom.
Any pe teachers I've ever met have been total prats. From the one who told me I'd never amount to anything because I couldn't do high jump (fully grown now I'm only 5ft, how that surprised him I'll never know) to the one who made you 'drop and give her twenty' if you called her miss instead of coach.
Not to mention there's always that one person who things pe is the fucking Olympics
Tell your dd that pe counts for nothing. Unless she wants to be a teacher if it when she grows up ofcourse. It's important to stay fit, yes but getting all upset over it is a waste of her time. Hope she doesn't have to endure it for too much longer.

Thanks for your nice replies and so sorry for the long moan but I was just so annoyed.

As I said dd is actually not bad at many sports given the chance, it's just that the lesson is so intrinsically linked to who's cool and who shouts the loudest (talk about handing a loaded gun over to the meanies) that she feels wrong footed before she even starts.

I know that girls can be like that at this age. Heaven knows we ALL know this, so why oh why does the teaching of this subject alone seem to not only ignore this fact but to actually build the lesson around it??

Not much point in taking this to the school. She's in yr10, things aren't going to change now. What's worse is that she's not upset as such, but just accepts that how it is. As did I at the same age. I guess there are loads of kids who steel themselves for their PE lessons in a similar way. And I can only think that identifying dd as a having a mother who moans about PE teachers will only make things worse.

Funny though, we are not unsporting as a family away from school. My ds (also at the school) is a National Champion in his chosen sport, so I silently stick two fingers up to the lot of them. They know nothing really.

So sorry to hear similar tales about your own dc too. The true measure of sport done well is being a good sport and denigrating others for what they may or may not be is unsporting and unattractive. Dd doesn't publicly mock people in her class who struggle with maths. Nor does the failure or success of anyone in the maths class hinge on how popular you are.

I'm quite surprised to hear this, it's really sad!

I have two at two different secondary schools, and their experiences are both very different. Neither of them are sporty at all, but I've been really impressed with the way their schools do things in PE. There is a lot more focus on tactics of games, learning the physical benefits of each exercise and sport, coaching methods, and it just seems so much more rounded and inclusive. There are teams and matches arranged against other schools for children of all abilities, so the C set children just play against C set children from other schools and that way they all get the experience of visiting other schools and being part of a team.

They don't pick teams and their changing rooms are nice, with shower cubicles (although they never get used).

Such a shame it can't be like this in all schools, I had assumed that it would be.

Set here too, which seems to work really well.
DD1 gets relaxed fun PE
DD2 gets the cooperative stuff and invites to do loads more at lunch and after school

Suits them both perfectly

I think you should be able to drop PE if your not doing a PE GCSE it's just a waste of time.

Sets in dd's PE lesson too. There isn't the ritual humiliation of team picking.

However, in many ways her PE experience is similar to the OP's child. PE is a diet of netball, hockey and cross country, according to the season. Children don't get choice about what sports are done. Children go to the field in all weathers. My dd has a condition which means she cannot regulate her temperature well. If she gets too cold, then it's very hard to warm her up, but she still has to go to the field for 2 hrs a week. Tough when it's below freezing.

We have similar. Have had some really lovely, fun teachers though, who don't do the whole pick your team and shouting stuff, but generally the whole system in our school of all being together for PE (especially as the school sets in other subjects) and the combination of activities (in the autumn term, netball and hockey, in the Easter term, 'fitness', in the summer term, rounders and fitness). Also hate the bleep test and other assessments where you essentially are performing in front of the whole class, while in most other subjects, you could hide the result if you wanted to.

I am so sorry your school is like that; it makes me feel grateful that ours isn't. And then cross because gratitude shouldn't come into it - all schools should be teaching effectively.

I think PE should stay on the curriculm - being there sends an important message about the importance of physical activity even when life (and the timetable) is full of other stuff.

But it won't do that if it includes things like the humiliating ritual that is pupils picking teams. Our school arranged the timetable so the whole year group goes out together; it's not exactly setting, but it does provide for flexible ability grouping. And teams are allocated by the teachers.

Dcs school set as well and they get to chose a pathway which is 3 different sports over 3 terms. The could do even do golf, plenty of choice for the less sporty. Neither of my two were into team sports ,but somehow my dd ended up on the girls rugby team. Neither ever complained about PE so i suspect the school have got it right.

Same in Edinburgh, load of bollocks. Why don't they learn?

I remember the humiliation of always being the last one to be chosen for team games. It is so soul destroying and I am angry that some schools still do this.

Fortunately they set for PE at DD's school. She has joint problems, but because she is with people of similar ability she enjoys PE rather than dreads it. In fact she is usually in the top group of her set so it is a massive confidence boost.

Can you email the head of the PE department?

I've never understood why PE in schools is mainly about teaching sports like rugby or hockey or whatever. If a kid is interested in those, let them join a club after school or something.

I reckon PE in school should be more like aerobics or yoga or a Zumba class or Tai Chi.

Well, that's what I would have liked anyway. Maybe then I wouldn't have skived off PE to go and watch Monty Python videos at my mate's house.

Lots of school do it better than that, OP.

DS1's school has streams chosen by the child themselves -- so you can do 'team' (competitive) stream if you like, or 'strength' (gym, rowing and salsa, weirdly), or 'adventure' (cycling, climbing and parkour).

DD's school seems to feature swimming and frisbee rather a lot, though I believe it has strong rugby teams for the (ahem) more athletic.

My PE lessons were just like that at school, your poor daughter. Is it worth talking to the school?

No, I don't really think I want to take on the school over it. If things haven't changed in over 30 years I can't see me moaning will do anything other than make things more uncomfortable for dd.

Anyway as I said she's not exactly upset, she was just talking quite matter of factly about it; which is probably worse as she accepts it

I also have a suspicion that PE teachers who are like this were probably the worst protagonists when they were at school. They probably don't see anything wrong and see this as part of the competetive hoo haa of PE in general. It's self perpetuating

Love the idea of Zumba or non team games for those who would prefer it. Now that would def have appealed to dd I'm sure.

I very much hated pe at school for the reasons already mentioned. Although I wasn't to bad at hockey and fairly good at swimming. I'm really hoping that when dd starts getting involved in pe, her classes are like the ones you've described ilovehotfudge. They sound wonderful. I don't know how dd will be at pe/sports yet, as she's only 18 months old. Although she would A*/gold medal in any climbing event

Sorry ILoveAFullFridge, I got your username wrong in my post, but I still love what you wrote

Gosh it's not all like that now. The Dds school has a huge range of kids from future Olympic hopefuls to ,well my Dds who gave their mother and fathers poor ability in sport (ESP the eldest)

BUT the girls tolerated PE and made progress though attainment stubbornly below average - we can understand that- it's a statistic. AND eldest spent several terms going to gym club where the ever patient teacher tried to get her to do a forward roll. She never managed it, but still wanted to go and keep trying. (obv they did other things too!)