Year 7 - How are your groups set?

[katrina81]

DD1 is in year 7 at the moment, she was placed in the top group due to her teacher's feed back from her primary. She has always struggled with her maths and was 2 marks away from a level 4 in her sats - she got 43. She got a 5a for reading, spelling and grammar.

They have just recently taken the CAT tests and DD's score was 96 due to her poor maths. So she has been moved down a group for everything. The teacher explained to me that if you are struggling with one thing, you get moved down for everything else which I think is really unfair. I remember when I was at high school we had separate groups for maths.

But DD is with the same group for everything. Is this the norm now at high schools?

No, dd's school is set by subject for most things.

She says she's with a different group of pupils pretty much every lesson, the only exception being the subjects taught through the medium of Welsh where there is just one mixed ability group.

What you're describing is streaming, rather than setting. We were streamed when I was at secondary for the first 3 years - its a rubbish system IMO, worse than either setting or mixed ability. DD's friend for example is in the bottom set for English with extra support (very dyslexic) but top set for maths and science.

DDs school sets only for maths and science in Y7 and Y8, I think for English too in Y9 onwards.

Thanks for the replies, the deputy head who I spoke to also advised if in 6 months if her maths hasn't improved she may be moved down either further, regardless of her progress in other subjects.

I have spoken to another high school and they have advised she will be in an appropriate ability group for Maths which will not effect her other subjects. The problem is DD has settled so well and has most of her old primary buddies with her.

Science and Maths were based on a combination of SATs results and teachers feedback from primary. However, they did tests the first week and were very quickly moved if the school felt it was appropriate.

My daughter's comprehensive asked the primary schools to get the children to do a French test and they were put in sets immediately with adjustment at the end of October when it was also decided whether they had the ability to cope with another language.

PE, they put them in sets after two weeks of assessment. Only two sets anyway, those that are really sporty and those like my daughter who aren't sporty or struggle with it.

If they already play an instrument they are placed in one of the top sets for music.

All other subjects are done on teacher assessment and tests and then set at end of October.

Unless they are really struggling in their set, they will stay there all year. Sets are reviewed at the start of each year.

In the short term, it's great they have all their old school buddies with them. Long term, it's great if they have the opportunity as other friendships - as well.

As said above your school streams rather than sets.
(imo a rubbish system)

DD1s school sets in y7 for Maths, ICT and English. During y7 she moved sets for each of these, so they were pretty flexible.

My son's school ignores SATs, since they are largely for the benefit of the primary school to jump through gov't hoops! They do their own tests and stream and set separately for maths and English, which then determine the setting for related subjects. They also reassess every half term, which seems extremely reasonable!

no clue how or if sets are set, One of the mums said so but I don't know how she knows for sure. I am vaguely sure DD did well in CATs especially verbal but no proof.

My DD's school also uses streaming which I don't like. She is in year 7. The streams are for maths, English, science and MFLs. The other subjects aren't set. If they are to movd sets all of the teachers have to agree, so it isn't easy.

I understand that in year 8 they can be in one stream for maths and science and another for English and MFLs.

In year 9 they are can be in different sets for every subject.

I hadn't realised this when applying to the school and I'm not sure if I had known whether it would put me off. The school ix comprehensive but does have amazing results - 91% A*-C inc maths and English, so I suppose I need to trust them. It is a bit of a worry though as DD is stronger in literacy than maths and her stream (3 out of 6) is apparently right for her maths, but probably too low for English.

Streaming is a terrible system, for all the reasons said above. What would they do with a recently-arrived EAL child whose Maths was brilliant but English was exceptionally weak?? Or the child in my current class with diagnosed dyscalculia but a 5c for Writing at the beginning of Year 5?

DS's school sets only for Maths in Y7 (remainder is mixed ability tutor groups), then for an increasing range of subjects in Yrs 8 and 9.

I would get back to the teacher with a detailed query about streaming vs setting, whether it continues throughout the school etc. I would also ask about the english and Maths GCSE results from the middle / lower streams. If streaming goes all throughy the school, and if there is nobody getting high English (or high Maths) scores from the lower streams - despite there being some children who are in those streams who had high ability in one (but not the other, hence the lower stream) - then I would seriously consider moving school. Why should your daughter's English results be compromised because she struggles with Maths? That's not fair.

Thanks for all for the replies.

teacherwith2kids I have asked the school for a meet with the Principal and I will put forward some of your points. It is mainly ignorance on my part but I just assumed schools used sets instead of streaming and if I had known I would not have sent her there. She worked so hard in year 6 to achieve her level 5s.

The teacher I spoke to blamed it on being a smaller than average school and that is why they use the system they do, and in actual fact it was the Maths teacher who recommended she was moved down.

I'm not sure why a smaller school would have to stream? DD's school has an intake of 80 per year, which I'm sure would make it smaller than average for a secondary?

I have 2 DC's in different secondary schools at the moment.
DC1 have two parallel bands set one down to set 3. These are set on ability which is assessed from SATs raw scores , teacher assessments and MIDYIS test sat on day two of term. One band studies French as MFL the other Spanish.
They are then set separately for Maths and English they are constantly assessed and moved up/ down accordingly.
Finally they are in mixed ability groups for Art,DT,ICT and PE.
DC2 have broad sets for everything based on SAT results and teacher assessments. When I asked what this meant was told well level 5 and high level 4 together and level 4 level 3 together. Everything pretty fluid and can move up/ down accordingly.
I prefer DC1 school system .

Yes, that's streaming not setting, and it's a bad idea and not very usual.

English and maths are usually the same set which is bonkers imo. Ds is top English and was top maths but really struggled,I went in and made a fuss as he was so upset constantly, they moved him down a set but kept him in top English on my insistence. It's an academy if it makes any difference.

OP, I prayed for the school my dd is in. Prayed and jumped in the air. My life lesson is now this - be careful what you wish for. Our school too also streams and I think it should be outlawed, I really do, so much so I'm thinking of starting up a campaign about it. I even favor mixed ability teaching over it, which has proven to be more successful.

If you can find one report or study that favors it, then I'll eat my hat. Yes, even my high achieving comp has great results, which means they get away with the children they fail under that system.

I remember seeing a child's SAT's results who was in set 1 at parents evening towards the start of year 7. They had a 6 for Maths, 6 for Science and a 4 for English! Work that out. So they get taught the higher level English. My dd who was a 6c in English, but 5a in maths and Science get's taught in the lower level stream 3 with a less challenging book for English. And even the English teacher said it was not challenging enough for her.

And here's the other crap aspect - you're dependent on a child above failing across all subjects to be moved down for your child to move up.

My biggest regret in life is choosing this school. I can only stress that parents really look out for schools that do this and instead opt for those that set (which is much more fluid) and or mixed ability.

Be nice, is all I can say, but do stay on top of it. This site has been a great resource for me to check where my child is at and where they should be :0)

Well I will be seeking re-assurance from the school that this will not have a detrimental effect on her next 5 years at the school. I would be very happy for her to go in a lower group for Math, as more support for her, etc. But not for everything!

The school is an academy, sponsored by a funeral directors who also delve in supermarkets.