School size - big or small - does it matter?

[zower]

Hi, am in middle of choosing secondary school for my DS.

All the schools in our area seem big to me (minimum 150 i.e. 5 form entry.) But one I was interested in has 240 entry, which must mean 8 form entry. I find this size of school mind-boggling to be honest.

Am a bit worried! Do people think its possible to thrive in such large schools? I wondered if people had positive or negative experience?

"Learning Manager" - gosh what an ugly soviet-style name. I guess "Inclusion Manager" is another one.

Unlike "KittensInsane", which is great!

I went to a large school - 300 per year. My children to a small school - 100 per year.

Big school had more wide ranging subject options whereas small offers all the necessary and a few others. Same goes for extra curricular.

Bigger schools often have more wide ranging equipment - dance studios, music rooms etc. Small schools are likely to have some (probably to do with their specialism which were common a few years ago) but not necessarily lots. It depends on what your child is interested in.

Big school has a sixth form whereas our small school doesn't. That can actually be seen as an advantage if there are plenty of college options available, as each child is more likely to be able to choose the course/s they want to study without timetable clashes.

Small school, everyone knows each other. Promotes camaraderie and helpfulness. However, could be seen as more insular.

If you are alive and breathing, you stand a good chance of getting in the school teams for sports or the annual drama production. Disadvantage - you may not win so often!

If you don't get on with a teacher, unless it is a core subject, you are likely to be taught by them quite a lot in your years at secondary. However, same goes for getting on with teachers - you stand a pretty good chance of getting them again next year in a small school.

Our extremely large school (well over 2000 children) is excellent. Loads of choice, opportunities etc. But it is designed to be a big school and has loads of space and loads of staff!

The opportunities and clubs they do are incredible and my dc have not yet been refused anything.

The children I know there are absolutely thriving. I think I would too had I gone there - it really is amazing.

Eton has 1300 pupils.
DCs comp has 1500
the 6th form they will go to has 1500 per year group

its all about how they manage that number

• to 'lose' the least number of kids
• to get the best from everybody
• to enforce discipline and manners
• to have chains of command

I would personally prefer a smaller scho although I do understand the options

I'd always planned on sending dd to a 5 form entry 100-120 pupils selective school. It seemed to offer a wide enough range of (admittedly academic based) subjects)

Instead she's gone to a 1 form entry school - 18 in Year 7 although most years have approx 20-24 children in!!!!!

Subject choices are more limited but its a lovely environment.

DCs school is large (10 form entry). But a strong house system means that pastoral care is very good. Large cohorts mean that most subjects are taught in sets.

I think small primary or secondaries seem appealing before you send them there, but facilities/subject choices/wider range of children to pick friends from and smaller range of ability within sets is often better in a bigger school. One of our local comps has only 700 children, but only offers Spanish and no other MFL. The one with 1550 offers French, Spanish and German.

one of our local comps has 2000 children, but is divided into colleges of 400 children, each with its own head, set of teachers and facilities. So, more "human scale" as they call it, but less subject choices etc

My DS's and I all went to large schools that had two sites. One for the first three years and the other for the remaining four. Both schools offered lots of subjects and opportunities and had approximately 1000 pupils on each site.

I went to a school that was the largest comp in Europe at the time. There were 16 classes on entry and each class had 30 children apart from a few which had a few less. It was massive. While I gained a decent education I think we were easily forgotten by teachers.

DD1's comp is eight form entry. There are four houses, with two tutor groups (classes) per house. The whole year group is split into two populations, each containing two of the houses. The populations have different timetables and basically don't mix much in the lower years.

DD1's sense of identity is with her house and tutor group. Her tutor will stay with her right up to the age of 16 (unless she leaves). I can email the tutor at any time and (so far) have always received a reply within 24 hours.

These are the sorts of structures that make a big, scary place into a place where there are lots of opportunities. The list of extra-curricular activities is fantastic (and far better than the small "nurturing" place down the road, which seems to be doing a much less effective job of helping yr7 settle in, judging by feedback from other parents I know at both schools).

We have a choice of 3 form entry and 12 form entry (300 per year) schools.

Big school has lots of the things mentioned above e. g. non-teaching deputy year heads that move up the school, strong house system and it has a lovely feel.

I know plenty of children already there - a few dislike the size, most like it for the additional opportunities.

So, what it actually boils down to is organisation. A big school can offer advantages in spades if it's well managed.

Ours is, on both accounts; 280 DS entry in 10 'tutors' of 28 apiece in a purpose built school, and very well organised. They are actively encouraged to bond firstly with their tutor, secondly with their Year. They try and retain the same teacher for the 5 years, and the same Head of Year. There are no Houses though I gather other schools emphasise a vertical structure where House is All.

Note our school simply does not have a large enough indoor space for the whole school to convene together, ever! Though they do have a professional standard theatre with fixed, raked seating (seats 450) and a permanent employed stage crew! So they can do Year Assembly in there.

Both systems, year or house, work, if properly organised.

Yup, your school's theatre is the envy of many .... DD coming up for the Choir event there next week.

I went to a small secondary school (90 pupils per year) the headmaster did one assembly per year and we never saw him at any other time. God only knows what he was up to it certainly wasn't anything to do with raising academic standards, our school had the worst GCSE results in the country.

What you need to do, Talkin is to arrange some arson in the very year the Lottery Fund are beginning to feel embarrassed about the sheer scale of their wealth- and stick in a funding application! Worked for our school .

LOL

I agree that it makes a difference whether a school was originally designed to hold the number of pupils. I have visited two schools of more than 2000 pupils. One has huge grounds and doesn't feel cramped. One was originally a grammar school of 250 pupils. Obviously it has been extended, but it felt cramped and disjointed and the grounds didn't feel big enough

What you've said Lemon illustrates why I go when you hear of campaigns to make 'good schools' expand and take more pupils: it's overlooked that maybe what's made it 'great' is its selectivity (by exam, religion or house-price etc), its cohesion as a result of its limited pupil cohort; its ability to fit into its buildings and grounds. Mess with any or all of those and suddenly, the stuff that made it 'great' might disappear.