Would you send your child to a grammar school ?

[HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin]

This is going to be quite long and rambling but I wanted to find out how much of my own experiences are clouding my judgement.

Okay, where we live there are not any great schools unless you are in the correct feeder schools, which we aren't as we moved to the area after Reception.

I know people say that all the time, but it's true - I'm not a snob I promise!

There are a few grammar schools within a commutable distance, and after researching all the local schools, look like the best choice.

I say choice as they are not necessarily an option for us. DD is bright, on the top table (apparently), but as I said already we live in a really deprived area. Half the children don't even wear the uniform let alone turn up for school. If she were at a better performing school she might be more average, I don't know.

So anyway I was going to do a practice verbal and non-verbal reasoning test with her just to see if she had any natural aptitude or not, and then consider whether we should try for a grammar or not.

BUT... She doesn't want to go to a school like that, she wants to go to one with normal people.

Oh the irony! Her words are exactly I said to my very working class parents and my head teacher after turning down a place at a grammar school. My dad was angry but my mum let me make my own mind up.

Subsequently I went on to a 'normal' school and academically I achieved as well as I would have at the grammar, but but but I can't help thinking that if I'd have mixed with girls from the other school, I may have not ended up pregnant at 18 living in a council flat !

I know my DD is very easily led, even more so than me (she gets it from her dad's side) and I think when she goes to secondary school she'll be more interested in boys and makeup than getting As.

So what should I do?

I said it'd be long!

I am all in favour because it's really just an extension of setting. Having taught mixed ability, I really don't think it works very well. I am also in favour because I think that lots of less academically able kids are forced to trudge through subjects they can't cope with and will not pass exams in. It might be better to have schools with a more vocational focus. Admittedly these different courses could be taught alongside each other in the same school, but I do think that bright, academic children are better catered for in a GS environment. Expectations are high, behaviour is often better, motivation is strong.
I should add - I have never taught in a GS, I just went to one myself. I enjoy teaching less able students as well as able ones, just not in the same class at the same time!
From a selfish pov, my kids seem pretty bright. I'd like them to have the advantage that I had in my schooling.

You are the parent, she is the child - end of discussion. She goes where you send her, assuming that she has the grades to do so.

Er...for one thing, some of the kids who are not in this magic top set are perfectly well-behaved and getting on with things.

For another, the physical proximity to them doesn't leak, you know. My kids seem quite happy to know people - hey, even sit next to them at lunch - who are not Top Set. Sometimes they're even badly behaved. (And, as Wuldric pointed out, some of the Top Set kids and/or those in a grammar can be a less than angelic...)

Er...because I question a generalisation, I'm being pedantic?

OK, maybe south-east London's different. I just seem to know quite a lot of kids at different comps who are happily getting on with a decent education. This is, to my mind, enormously reassuring.

Well said holmes. a lot of teachers on this site are very circumspect
when it comes to suggesting that selective education could benefit the less able as well as the academic.

Most teachers either though bullying, or just toeing the union line dont give
the views you have for fear of being labelled.

Shock horror. Non academic pupils might benefit from not being in mixed
abilty classes.

l

My son has just started university and went to a local comp All his mates are at uni too and I never heard him ever mention any disruption in his classes. It was hugely mixed and he got a great education.

What do mixed ability classes have to do with it? Most schools set or stream. Some of them really stringently.

Comprehensive doesn't always equal mixed ability classes as some seem to think. Mixed ability teaching seems to go in and out of fashion, and currently seems very much out of fashion.

I'm not afraid of giving my views, however unfashionable they might be. In fact once I start, it's hard to hold back the flood! So many things about the way schools operate are just plain wrong-headed. But that's a whole other thread...

Of course comps set. However, for the OPs DD, it sounds like the issue is that she is too peer influenced so she might be rather happy to drift into a lower set than she's capable of to be with her mates. If the OP sends her to the GS she won't be able to do this.

The thing is, most of us don't choose schools for ideological reasons. We have our children, with their different abilities and characters, and we have a few schools available to us so we try to find the one that fits best. The OP is trying to work out what will be best for her child in her area.

Anyone choosing a GS because of some 'mystique' is daft (and anyone choosing a mediocre private school is dafter but it happens!) - if you look round one and it's shambolic, look elsewhere.

Comprehensive does not mean mixed ability teaching.

Oh, and low IQ is not catching. Neither is disruptiveness.

Disruptiveness may not be catching but it is - well, disruptive.

Love this idea of children having to 'contend' with less bright ones the very minute they step out of the door of top set... What is this contending? Do you mean 'seeing'?

And for heavens sake stop with the dramatics about 'the l word' being 'banned': you know perfectly well that's just silly!

I totally think op should look at all available schools, and I think both she and the dd have a few assumptions worth challenging. But it's depressing to see the same and worse from grown adults on this thread!

My DDs were set from day 1, in year 7, at their comp.
They went on SAT results initially. However these sets were very fluid with dc moving up and down if required.

And both DDs got fantastic results and went/are at good unis. As are their friends.

In so glad we don't live in a grammar area. So so glad.

The false assumptions people seem to have about comps and the children who go there is astounding.

Both my daughter's lovely friends who are round this evening were not in top set for everything. They're a great solid group of friends who are supportive and kind and hard working and very polite... Shall I nip up and check they haven't turned her thick?

And bear in mind, these are only comp top sets, so even in that set there were probably some dim wits who only got As! Think how awful a child would have to be not to end up in them! If only these girls had been in secondary moderns from 11, away from my precious girl

But if the clever kids are not disruptive in the grammar school why would they suddenly become disruptive in the top set of the comprehensive?