Slight setting worries - Year 8

[CloudFart]

DD is in HYear 8 and bright. Not genius, but normal bright. She is at a standard comp. She is in top set for maths and english and science, and was 6a, 6c and 6b in these at the end of year 7. She was either 5a or 6c for history, geography and rs at the end of Year 7.

She tells me that she is in set 4 of 6 for humanties despite these scores. Is this likely, (ie is she correct), or could the school have made a mistake in setting? I would have thought that those sort of scores would put her in sets 1 or 2 surely? Dioes it sounds stronage to you?

Would love to hear what other people think

I am not clued up on levels, but the disparity between English set and humanities set strikes me as odd. On that basis, I would query it with the school.

There is never any harm in querying secondary setting decisions, they can be very odd.

And before any teachers get on their high horses, I'm afraid I have a DD1 with 99% on a real GCSE paper to show my point.

Yep, sounds wrong to me. In the absence of some other factors, I doubt that in a 'normal' comp there would be two sets of kids working above level 6 in humanities at the beginning of year 8.

I would query it (and I'm a teacher!) It could be that it's not an ability set. Sometimes schools have teaching groups in Year 7 and 8, especially for humanities subjects, which are different from tutor groups but not ability-based. Sometimes they have a top set, a bottom set and other mixed sets in between. Each set has to be called something, so a number is given to it for timetabling purposes. If she's at an all-ability comp, it's very unlikely that she's below average for the year group.

Thank you for posting. I don't know much about levels either, but dd's reports have always been good, so I know that 6's are good for end year 7 (though not exceptional ). I posted them so that those that do know about these things can judge!

Maybe the humanties sets are mixed - dd thought they were set like the core subjects though.

The school is a standard comp, though gets good results (70% a-c GCSE).

I will get dd to ask her form tutor maybe, to see if they are sets or just classes, then query it. The reason we know it is set 4 of 6 is because they have sets A1, A2, A3, A4 and B1 and B2. DD is in A4 for humanities (but A1 for maths etc..) Thanks for backing me up that if they are sets, they may be the wrong ones...

I'd definitely check, my DD1 has very similar (almost identical) levels and is in top sets for everything in Yr8 - and it's considered a bright year cohort. School has created a 'super set' for children who are top for a broad range of subjects and she is in it - sounds like your DD should definitely be higher for the humanities, I'd be thinking set 1.

I honestly wouldn't bother with the form tutor. The form tutor won't know, so he/she will have to contact the Humanities staff and then speak to your daughter - and you'll probably end up ringing up after all. Just leave a message for the Head of Humanities to ring you and query the setting.

I'm afraid I don't take levels very seriously, but 5a/6 is pretty good for the end of Year 7. Just to give you an idea, I've just looked through some old reports. My dd was a 6b in all the humanities at the end of Year 7 and went on to get A at GCSE and A at AL history and my ds was a Level 6 and has just taken GCSEs in History and Geography a year early and passed both with A.

yes, I forgot we now have a new and stupid naming system that has parelell set ones called A1,A2 and A3. Being in A3 worried DD until the brightest mathematician in the year said she was too.

Ours don't set in humanities, they mix up the classes, but with mixed ability

(our mix depends which languages they are doing since there needs to be some convoluted timetable shuffling etc between humanities and languages for those who do Spanish and German, French and Spanish, French and German or just single languages).....

It does sound to me as though they're not set for humanities, despite the names. But still maybe worth checking, as those are not really set 4 levels she's got.

I have answers! Maths, English and Science are ability set, so A1 means top set and they doing different work from (eg) the A4 set.

Humanities have two ability streams A and B. Classes within that are mixed ability, so set A1 does the same work as A4, but different work to B1 and B2.

So, not to worry that dd is A4 for humanities then - it is mixed (higher) ability. She is in the single top set for maths, english and science though, which are set tighter for ability.

Why the school (a) make it seem so complicated and (b) don't tell us what it means is frustrating...

I have no idea if music/pe/drama/ict/dt/art etc are set. I think I would need to have a lie down before I asked, as I doubt the answer would be straightforward!

Thanks for your reassurances

At dds school Music, ICT, DT and Art are the non-set subject (no drama) and neither is PE (which is divided into separate groups for boys and girls which doesn't give much room for ability sets).
MFL was also set from Y8 onwards.

Information about how they divided children into sets for each year was on the back of dds timetable and as this had been stuck with bluetac onto her door I didn't realise I had that information there!

At least yours was resolved OP and ended up making sense. My ds school refuse to budge or answer questions to justify their decisions and just say your ds will be fine. My DS at end of year 7 got level 6 in Maths (sub level not provided), 6c in English and 5a in science and yet is in set 3. It is a high achieving comp but even with those scores only set 1 and 2 are prepared for triple science and get additional subjects taught to them. There was also a case in year 7 where a child who didn't know 6x7 was moved down to set 3. The question is, what was he doing their in the first place? I from this have to assume that in a comp (not a grammar) there are 70 boys therefore working at level 7 for Maths and English. Appreciate there could be quite a few working at level 6 for science.

ps: I'm saying sets because they call it that, however, they are actually streamed which means they get taught at the same level for every subject.

Thick moment. should have read: what was that child doing THERE in the first instance?

That's crazy, cupcake - with those scores, a child should be entered for triple science no matter what blinking set they are in because they are A/A* material. If all those children are really that super bright, the school should give them all the opportunity to get that excellent teaching.

Of course your tale of 6x7 suggests that there is something quite different going on, unfortunately.

Pointy, I know, I know, I know, I know. I posted about this a few months ago and everybody had the same thing to say as you. Regardless of the blooming set he's in.

Set 3 were also given the middle tier book to study for English (Holes) as opposed to top 2 sets who did animal farm despite entering the school on straight 5's. I have done everything, let me tell you - everything to get to the bottom of it, so when I saw OP's post I thought , cool, I'm not alone. But no - her situation worked out. You then think you're going mad and then people say 'Oh he'll be fine!!!!' and I feel like I'm going to strangle them. Yes there's fine and there's blinking FINE. 'As long as he's happy!!!' is the other one.

Anyway, I'm hacking cloudfart's thread. But must thank her anyway as a wee reminder that I'm not going blooming mad!!!!

I thought every child who achieved 6c at the end of KS3 was eligible for triple science.

What year is ds in now, urbancupcake?

And have you left it long enough since querying it that you can do so again? I'd be keen to if I were you!

@MadameDefarge and HmmAnOxfordcomma - just realised I need to clarify further. So ds just joined year 8 this month. The school prepares for triple science from year 9. However, they accelerate the top two streams in Maths and Science from year 7 (english they do more challenging work also with regard to the book they study as noted in my earlier post). So for example, top two streams started on a higher Maths book from the off and avoided getting bored for 90% of the time going over old work) and so we have had to hire a tutor to keep his levels up there, and started the higher level science book, minus the summer holidays around 4/5 months ago (so now having to look into a science tutor also to keep his levels up in that subject too, and they're a fortune).

There website clearly states only stream 1 and 2 do the triple science. So you may say, that's okay, if my ds is a 5a now, getting to 6c by year 9 should be a breeze and they'll put him in the group to prepare for triple. BUT because they stream rather than set, it needs a child to be performing badly across all areas (so a child I know of who's a level 4 in English but in stream 1, stays in stream one because after the Christmas exams he was a 6 in science and maths) before someone is moved down to create a space for your child to move up. We need someone to fail therefore for our ds to be on track for doing the triple.

Moreover with them being 4/5 months ahead already, by then the gap just gets wider. Hence why I'll need to start eating means on toast to get a tutor to fill the gap.

I went through so much with them, now they're just digging their heels in to prove a point and for having the nerve to question them and so mow I'm just the (in the negative sense) ambitious mother.

@HmmAnOxfordcomma I didn't know that end of ks3 makes children eligible for doing triple, thanks for letting me know. Is that law or standard practice do you know? They of course start the prep for triple early from beginning of year 9, but either way if my ds is a 5a now (had lots of work during the year leveled at 6) then being a 6 even at the beginning of year 9 will be nothing for him as he's hard working and studious. But it seems it's not the levels that determines things but the stream number, and moving streams is as frequent as an eclipse.