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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Poor AS results

30 replies

bettina46 · 26/08/2013 10:00

I need your advice. My daughter got U at Maths and Biology AS, C at Sociology and A at French. I didn't know what to say. She had all AA at GCSE except for Bs at English Language and English Literature. English is our second language. We've lived in UK for 5 years and DD started her education here from Year 8 with a basic knowledge of English. She is very good at languages, she's learning Japanese at home and thinks about. studying it at SOAS. Last year she did excepionally well at sciences - A at Triple Sciences so taking Biology for A level was an easy choice. She also wanted to take Chemistry but it was in the same block as French so she had to take Sociology instead.
Her school wants her to continue French and choose other subjects. DD is depressed and doesn't know what to do now. I have always thought she's the academic type so I'm really suprised with her poor results.

OP posts:
creamteas · 26/08/2013 12:47

It is really not that unusual to get these results at AS (especially Maths!). There is a really big jump between GCSE and AS levels.

If she is enjoying it, I would say it is probably worth carrying on with sociology alongside French and only picking up one new subject.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 26/08/2013 12:57

Hi bettina, my DD is in a similar boat having really crashed in Maths & Chemistry (though did well in Biology).

This isnt the end of the world! There is still time to turn this around.

How does your DD feel about her results? Is this a case of failure of understanding or is it more to do with a failure of study and exam technique?

I started a thread here as well and have had some excellent advice.

First off, there is a big jump from GCSE to AS and then A2. In the sciences one of the big problems is the use of language. There is a specific vocabulary to be used. DD learnt this for Biology (and therefore succeeded) but didnt so well for Chemistry. This didnt matter at GCSE but does at AS.

One of the big things we have all learned with DD's results is that doing all the set work at GCSE will get an A. Just doing all the set work at AS gets you an E. One of the big learnings for us is that DD will have to do a lot more independent study and also an awful lot more exam question practice.

DD is going to have to resit specific AS papers alongside her A2 studies. This means a lot more work.

What does your DD want to study at university? Is there an opportunity to resit the year but start again with some new subjects?

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 13:05

Same with biology, the sciences are incredibly different from GCSE to A level (this is necessary).

If she enjoys them and wants to continue, some YouTube channels such as Khan Academy (this link is to the biology playlist, there's a lot of maths on there too but I don't know anything about maths!), and Crash Course Biology can help. There's probably some British made A level ones around for her particular exam board.

If she doesn't enjoy it, then there's no harm in starting something better and taking an extra year over A levels. I did this after I was pushed into subjects my parents wanted me to do. (Not saying this applies!)

Good luck to her.

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 13:06

WorrySigh the Khan Academy stuff for chemistry is brilliant, I've used a lot of it this year.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 26/08/2013 13:10

Sorry, forgot to add, we too have experience of changing country and language so do understand just what an achievement your DD's GCSEs were. Also, she has done extremely well to achieve an A in French and a C in Sociology.

Dont forget to celebrate the successes.

It can feel like you only get one chance at each stage but that certainly isnt the case. Some rethinking now will not mean that your DD gets left behind.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 26/08/2013 13:25

Thank you RegainingUnconsciousness I have passed a link onto DD

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 13:42

Glad I can be of use. She may also like:

www.chemguide.co.uk/
www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/resources/mechanism-inspector/
phet.colorado.edu/en/simulations/category/chemistry

The first gives good explanations of things, good alongside text books and the videos.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 26/08/2013 15:57

Wow, thank you!

DD is keen to up her Chemistry grades as she wants to study Biochemistry at university. She really loves the subject.

hellsbells99 · 26/08/2013 16:32

Thanks for all these links! I have just emailed them to my DD. sorry to gatecrash the thread but do you know any for physics? DD doing AQA B - physics in context and there does not appear to me much revision material for it. All the advice being given on this thread is great. Good luck to your DD op. My DD has been warned by her chemistry teacher how big the jump is and is worried.

HisMum4now · 26/08/2013 16:35

These resources are very helpful, thank you indeed.

Many people are saying that the sciences become much more difficult at A levels compared to GCSEs. Could anyone share any experience as to what is the difference?

hellsbells99 · 26/08/2013 16:43

DD has been told by her teacher that she is capable of taking AS chemistry but should not her confidence be dented if she gets Us in any of her tests.....sounds like a huge step up!!!

hellsbells99 · 26/08/2013 16:44

Sorry - should say 'not let her confidence be dented'

hellsbells99 · 26/08/2013 16:45

Unfortunately it is being made a lot more difficult be the removal of the January resits.

HisMum4now · 26/08/2013 17:03

have always thought she's the academic type so I'm really suprised with her poor results.

Like OP, i am wondering why bright kids handle the transition so 'unreliably'. What happens? Why are A levels such a step up?

WorrySighWorrySigh · 26/08/2013 17:08

I have just asked DD what the big steps up in Biology & Chemistry. These are her answers:

  • you stop learning about things you can see in a test tube, you have to start learning about things which are assumed rather than definite (eg electrons and how they behave)

  • you have to understand concepts which people have spent years researching and which may not be right!

HisMum4now · 26/08/2013 17:15

Oh, this is so perceptive. A very profound observation and a lot of self-insight. Congratulations for your DD. This is why MN is great !

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 17:52

Yes, you go from a very rough approximation of science, which is sufficient for the vast majority of people to explain the everyday phenomena they encounter. To theoretical and abstract science that enables degree level study.

For example, in GCSE chemistry we learn atomic structure, and even the history of its discovery, up to the Bohr model of a positive nucleus surrounded by electron 'shells' in the 2,8,8,8 pattern. This explains most of the reactivity most of us need to know.

At A level, you then discover that actually, there are sub shells: s, p and d shells, and the periodic table can be used to work out in which shells electrons are likely to exist (also, we've gone from the concrete "electrons are here" to he abstract "electrons can theoretically be anywhere, across the room from their nucleus even, but there is a greater likelihood of them being in one of the orbitals"), these electrons also behave in certain ways, you learn about "spin" and resonance.

I'm rambling. I need to get my head back into teaching mode tonight! Thanks!

It's just such a huge jump, most students find it hard. But we now have the Internet! And these sources like Khan Academy will effectively teach and re-teach bits whenever you like. Most importantly students should ask their teachers and keep on asking till they understand.

Another common problem is that the sciences at this level are more often taught in tertiary colleges, in a lecture format, by very clever teachers but who may not have taught younger students, and so use fewer different strategies to support learning. Whereas I'd make models and use discussion and questioning and group activities, a tertiary lecturer might simply... lecture.

hellsbells Khan Academy (Salman Khan is a legend) covers lots of physics too. I'll have a look for some physics sites when I pretend to do some work later and post any more links I find, although I don't know much about the physics A level.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 26/08/2013 18:13

I think your comment about the teaching style is very true RegainingUnconsciousness. At AS, students have to learn study for themselves (this has been the hard lesson for DD). The contact time with teachers is just one of the resources students have to use.

HisMum4now · 26/08/2013 18:17

Thank you Regain, this is very informative.

In relation to maths it was said that the workload increases in difficulty (which you discussed) and quantity. Do students have to cover more stuff in unit of time in sciences, or is it about the same pace, just more abstract and more difficult?

They also say students have to read around much more. Is it to better understand and grasp those new concepts, or is it that part of the marks depends on reading stuff not covered in class?

What do they mean bu independent learning?

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 18:27

In order to really understand and learn some of the concepts, I'd say students should recap their day's learning every evening. (I encourage my GCSE & younger lot to get into this habit) This can be by reading their text book, by looking at some of the videos & video lessons, or reading about the topic online (e.g. If you've learned a bit about NMR, and you understand it, download a couple of exam questions and have a go, or find out about the application of it).

As a basis, you could try asking your teens to explain what they've learned over dinner every night. This forces them to summarise and order their thoughts, and identifies areas of weakness. Perhaps make a note of any weak areas while you're at the table, then there's a basis for the extra reading. (And you'll all get to learn about science, yay!)

HisMum it's a bit of all of it I think. With the return to linear, though, things might be a little less fraught mid-term, and some teachers might have taken the opportunity to reorganise the course (most of us haven't had time & headspace yet).

But the independent learning habits are ones that are essential for degree study anyway. Best learned and perfected now.

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 18:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 18:33

Bit worried I've outed myself there.

HisMum4now · 26/08/2013 19:08

The Ed Pshyc recommended what you call flipped learning to DS, but the school ignored it. I suppose I should try to establish it somehow at home regardless.

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 19:10

It's a big change, HisMum, and works best where there is support from management and freedom and headspace to experiment.

I love it though!

RegainingUnconsciousness · 26/08/2013 19:11

Oh, and really nice to hear its being recommended by an EP. What is it about your son that makes it particularly useful?

You might also want to look at www.knowmia.com then!

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