Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

[Jella2u]

Disappointment here too. Son has got 10 GCSE's grade A-C. So what's the prob? You have no prob! Yes I do!!!
He got a grade B, yes that's right, B for Bertie for Maths. The school (which is a comprehensive turned Academy ) will let him do his Physics, Chemistry and Biology, but not Maths for which they say a Grade A is required unless you've clocked up a total of 224 points between the last 2 module papers. Unfortunately his tally was 205. Husband went up suited and booted to the school this morning to plead son's case. Phoned us this afternoon - no go. Have said this to all who got a B. So nothing personal there.
Have tried to contact other schools this afternoon. Needless to say all are shut. Local Authority very helpful and recommended emailing. Are schools running a clearing system that I don't know about? Do tell.
School did offer Statistics as a replacement this morning, but by this afternoon that was off the menu as no-one wants to do it. There are 7 pupils in this maths grade B situation who want to do A level Maths. Strangely the school says Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Maths are the most difficult subjects. So they might be for most people, but what if your child is the one that has had to struggle with French, Music, English Language and bid their time to do the supposed hard four?
We feel he needs A level maths to support science subjects.
Unfortunately, I said we would be back with an answer as to taking up a place with some sort of substitute for Maths before term starts. Every chance if I can't get something sorted fast he will be a well educated NEET!!!
All ideas welcome. Thanks in advance.

Papers 1 and 2 are out of a 120UMS each, by the way, so 92 on paper 2 is actually a higher mark than 113 on paper 3. (Paper 1& 2 UMS boundaries are: 84=B, 96=A, so 92 is a higher B)

UMS and raw marks are not the same.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but I have to ask.

A long time ago, back in the dark ages, it was OK to go off and do A Level Maths with a C at O Level. You probably wouldn't have got a very good grade but you would have been expected to pass (at a D or E). Have the boundaries really changed so much that getting a B at GSCE means you aren't good enough to pass an A Level? And why, and how? Surely a B should mean you are fairly good at something.

B is not a great grade nowadays - grade inflation being what it is - I don't think DD's school would allow anyone to do an A level in a subject without an A (and a jolly good reason for not having got an A*). It's not just restricted to maths. We're just starting on A level choices now as DD is going into her final year of GCSEs.

Private or state Wulderic? I know a lot of private schools do that. Keeps their A*A and AB pass rate looking good for the league tables, Not to mention the % of their leavers going to Russell Group Unis/Oxbridge.

I think with all the grade inflation C means you've mastered the basics, B is slightly above average and A/A* is good All the other grades below C, I think you can forget.

Meant to mention it earlier, but in our 6th form rounds, we did not come across any schools that required taking Maths A level to take Physics.
Recommended, but not required.

Varying exam boards for Physics. the most mathematical course we saw (AQA) wanted an A grade maths at GCSE, would prefer student to take at least AS maths, but claimed they would teach any maths needed as part of the physics course.
Least mathematical (OCR) and school were not bothered about GCSE maths grade at all.
The school DD has chosen do EDEXCEL Physics, and want a strong A in maths GCSE to take Physics. By a strong A, they meant from an A prediction, rather than a good day for a B predicted student.

I think that's probably true about below C. I'm working in what's essentially an 'unskilled' job at the moment. The people I work with who were taken on 10-15 years ago don't have a Maths or English GCSE/O level/CSE between them. These days we won't look at any one who doesn't have C or above in Maths and English. Although that's as much due to the job situation as grade inflation.

I still don't think that 'B' at maths GCSE means you're a bit rubbish at maths or your maths skills are limited though.

Circular, that will work for A level but certainly not enough for a science degree, either physics or maths o engineering.

"I think with all the grade inflation C means you've mastered the basics, B is slightly above average and A/A* is good All the other grades below C, I think you can forget."

But when I did O Levels back in the last century, if you got below a C it meant you had failed. OK the slip said "D Pass" but everyone knew it was a fail - if you needed English and Maths O Levels for a particular profession they had to be above a C. So I don't think things have changed all that much. Except for the A*

hi, my ds also had an 'A' grade maths last year at gcse, but had his results for maths As on the 15th August and was an 'U'!! He worked really hard to get the 'A' grade at gcse as maths did not come to him that easily. He really regrets taking the subject now and does not want to re-sit any maths exams so basically has wasted a whole year. Personally I would not recommend A level maths unless you really love the subject and good at it. This is only my personal opinion though!

When i did olevel in 79 a D was a fail by 5% or less

This thread is really informative- thank you. I have a query. DD is in top set maths at school and is predicted an A in maths and on current form will get a B in Statistics. She enjoys it but is evidently in the lower half of the set.

She would quite like to take it on but judging from the comments here, there's not much point unless she's A material. My question is: what exactly are the A skills/topics that you need to have a hope of doing Maths AS Level? Sorry to ask the basic question (I dropped Maths after a B at O Level) but I need to be armed..

Boosiehs bit puzzled by your reply - do you mean Physics without maths would not be acceptable for Physics based degree? There must be students that take chemistry related degrees without maths?

Clay your DD shouldn't be put off maths if she is going to get an A and enjoys it! She will find it more difficult than an A* candidate, but if she puts the work in and seeks help if she's struggling, then she definitely can do well.

Best advice would be to make sure her algebra is really strong, that's where most students fall down. She needs to be able to confidently manipulate expressions, expand brackets, factorise quadratics (including where a>1), simplify algebraic fractions and solve quadratics using factorising, completing the square and the quadratic formula. She needs to be able to solve any form of linear equation, and simultaneous equations. Dealing with fractions is something she needs to be able to do in her sleep, add/subtract, convert mixed and top heavy. C1 is non calc and for lots of students it's been a long time since they've been asked to do it.

The Haydon AS level entrance exam prep I linked to upthread would be worth her looking at
www.haydonschool.com/hy/content/download/1094/4208/file/A-Level+Maths+Entrance+Exam+Information.pdf

She doesn't need to be able to do all of it, but if she is confident with her algebra, she will find the transition to A-level much easier.

I did a chemistry degree with As pure maths (a level chem grade a and maths c), at a Russell group uni, many moons ago so can only speak from my experience.

I had to take an extension maths course, same as people with no a level, which was really hard, and even with as level I really struggled with the maths elements of the course. Heard similar stories from biologists who struggled with stats.

DH, who did physics degree and phd and is now an alevel tutor, said he thought a level maths was essential for that course, plus engineering courses he took.

Like I said, only speaking from my xperience.

Clayhanger If your DD is just going into yr11 then she still has time to up improve and possibly raise predictions - unless she is sitting the exam early. Have you asked her teacher whether she thinks your DD would manage A level?

What other subjects is your DD hoping to take for A level?

My DD is going into a large 6th form (for a school) where they will be setting for A level maths. one set for FM students, one for remaining A*, and 3 sets for all the A graders.

Nobelgiraffe that links very useful, thanks. I may get DD to go through it once she has finished the CGP Headstart book. Bit worried that she has done no algebra since end of Feb (early sitting) Although she did attend some optional sessions for those intending to take AS, but it was all calculus.
A quick question, as DD changing schools, going from EDexcel linear GCSE to OCR A level for maths. Is there likely to be stuff she hasn't covered, but should have?
Same question for going from OCR Gateway B Physics GCSE to EDexcel A level?

You certainly need A level maths for an engineering degree.DS is going into year 13 so at the beginning of the application process and every single course needs maths and preferably physics.The RG ones are all around A*AA. Its very difficult to find insurance courses except maybe Loughbourough foundation which want Bs

Bruffin - it's worth looking at the B Eng courses for insurance. At most unis you can do a straight transfer to the MEng provided your grades are good enough.

DS applied to Cardiff and Surrey as back ups.

If your DS is considering Bristol, I can dig out the info they emailed us regarding how they score applications for offers. Let me know.

Thank you noblegiraffe and circular - very helpful indeed. I don't want to discourage DD but I know from friends' DCs' experience that it can be a slog. She certainly needs to practise outside lessons with the mymaths thing.
Her teacher seems to think she could manage A Level but I worry she'd end up with a D which would make uni entry difficult.
As it happens she doesn't want to do sciences as she likes literature and languages, and is likely to do quite well in those at A Level - especially since DH and I can support her in those subjects! She was also considering Economics A Level which I think requires a good grasp of stats. But she's much less interested in stats than the purer maths.

Could I add my son's experience? He is now a Chartered Engineer. He did struggle with A level maths at school, which was partly due to him, and partly due to the teacher. Once he got to University and could see how he needed it for his engineering and how it related, it began to click and he got out his A level books and revised the maths thoroughly to make sure his foundation was secure.

So yes, I think OP you have to find some way of building up his maths knowledge for the sake of his science.

(Now in my day, which was ages ago, those scientists not doing Maths A level, did a course called Maths for Scientists. I don't know whether it was an examinable course, or whether it was an initiative of the science department.)

noblegiraffe can I just say for all the helpful stuff you have posted on here and other threads.
I have DS1 who is talented at Maths, just got stunning grades at AS and plans to do Maths degree.
DS2 however manages to get good grades through sheer hard work and perseverance, helped a lot by DS1. The school put top set in for Maths in Y10 and he is about to do Y11 where they do statistics.
I am vehemently against early entry for GCSE but we had no choice. It's likely DS2 will want to do sciences and Maths A level which I think he is capable of, but a whole year without practising his Maths skills is a big mistake IMO. We are going to try and keep his hand in with regular maths revision at home over the next year to try and avoid him losing skills he has worked hard to gain. I have revision guides galore but that entrance exam paper looks very useful.

Thanks JGBmum have p'med you

Hi Bruffin - have sent you an email with the details.

Many years ago my DH did a fifth A level which he was taught at home by his Dad. This was in the days before A stars and he got an A and went on to study the subject at uni. So it is possible. A few differences from your situation though - he was a very high scoring straight A student, the school knew and were happy about it and his Dad was an A-Level teacher of the subject with a good degree in the subject. I imagine all those factors made something of a difference to the outcome.