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Secondary education

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Original poster

Despite all my efforts to the contrary, it looks like DD will leave school with the equivilent of 14 GCSEs

26 replies

KatyMac · 22/08/2013 12:12

I can't help but feel this is too many and that 8-10 in more depth

She got this year & last years today; 2xA* for Dance, B for Music, C for Spanish, Geography, IT & Science

There are 6/7 more next year 2nd Science, Maths, 2xEnglish, Drama (equivilent of 2) & Business

I pulled her out of 3 more.

I know DD is unusual because she has out of school activities; but I really can't see the benefit of all these qualifications.

I am massively proud of her anyway

OP posts:
JammieMummy · 22/08/2013 13:51

I would agree with you, she is doing too many. Employers will not care if she has 10 or 14 but they will look at the grades. Because your DD is being stretched thin her grades aren't as good as they need to be. Could she drop business and drama and the retake the C's in science and at least Spanish (personally I would sit IT again too). These are important subjects and it would look much better for her later on to have these at an A grade rather than more of them but lower grades.

I say this as someone who sat a number of GCSE's early and is now part of the panel who vets and interviews candidates for a very selective carer.

Theas18 · 22/08/2013 15:17

sadly I agree too that this is too much. I fear that for a lot of kids the c might be b or a I'd they'd have had another year.

what does she want to do?

CockyFox · 22/08/2013 15:25

Back in 1999, I did 12, exams all taken in year 11, I got 4 B's and the rest C's. I did music and drama after school with a handful of friends.

I would never have got better grades as I am just not that bright, but the subjects I did outside of standard hours are the ones I enjoyed most and have the best memories of being at school from.

Nobody has ever asked me how many GCSEs I have or what grades individually only if I got 5 C or above.

secretscwirrels · 22/08/2013 15:49

katymac are they GCSEs though?

I say this because schools promote BTECs as "the equivalent", many scoring up to 4 GCSEs after never sitting an exam. In the real world BTECs are nothing like GCSEs. When DS1 got to 6th form he quietly dropped his D* x2 engineering BTEC from the tally.

Well done to her whatever they are.

NatashaBee · 22/08/2013 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DocMarten · 22/08/2013 17:52

How many actual individual subjects is she doing. It doesn't look like 14 to me, as some are counting for 2 or more?

5Foot5 · 22/08/2013 22:37

I agree with JammieMummy and think it would be much more important to go for As in the subjects that matter than have oodles of fairly inconsequential subjects and only Cs in things like Science and Maths.

The only thing I disagree with her about is IT. IT at GCSE is crap and a waste of time (and I work in IT) Most of the stuff DD did for her IT GCSE was stuff she was capable of in Year 6. High time they had a proper Computer Science GCSE instead (but that is quite another rant)

Picturesinthefirelight · 22/08/2013 22:42

I totally agree with you katymac as you know from previous conversations. The school dd will go to dies a maximum if 9.

The school ds will go to does a maximum of 10 but most take 9.

MrsMeg · 22/08/2013 22:47

I agree re the IT GCSE, my teens found it a complete waste if time, far too easy and boring!

cafecito · 22/08/2013 22:54

I think it will be better for her to be able to write on a CV in future (when nobody cares really about what GCSEs you took) ''10 A-A GCSEs'' or ''11 A-B GCSEs'' than Drama GCSE A*,Spanish C.. ad infinitum. nobody will care it it's 9, 10 or 14. She should aim for the highest grades, not the most grades, in my view.

BlackMogul · 22/08/2013 23:42

Fortunately you are not applying to a top class university where lots of good (A & A* ) grades are expected AND they do look at GCSE results. 9 or 10 high grades in ACADEMIC subjects to include English, Maths, Sciences, a language, a humanity and an arts based subject plus others is what is best. Saying you have not been asked is not relevant to young people today.

BlackMogul · 22/08/2013 23:53

Above post was addressing the issue raised by CockyFox by the way. I cannot understand why any school lets young people rack up huge numbers of exams in semi worthless qualifications and do not concentrate on fewer high quality ones. Actually Drama is very useful if you happen to be good at English and go together well at A level. Totally agree about ICT. Worthless as it is boring and is often an easy substitute for a language. Also why are exams taken early when the young person only gets a C? Why not have an extra year of teaching then maybe they could get a B or better? Why do parents go along with this? Not many years ago only extremely bright people did exams early so they breezed into A levels and extension teaching so they could get an interview at Oxbridge.

tiredaftertwo · 23/08/2013 08:34

The league tables include a total points score, so that is the incentive for schools IMO (both for excessive numbers of qualifications and for doing them early so you can fit more in). The new tables, which have much more info, and highlight achievements in fewer, core, subjects, are better I think, and more could be done in that direction. I hope that as schools wake up to this they will stop treating kids as cash cows trying to squeeze every last point out of them. I know several clever children who have been forced to dilute their efforts in the subjects that will matter to them by studying qualifications that, for them, will be of no or little value.

I don't know why more parents do not challenge it, perhaps by asking the school directly which careers and universities require these qualifications, or by quoting Ofsted's statements on how they view early entry.

TheOneAndOnlyAlpha · 23/08/2013 08:37

Is she doing A Levels? If so once they are under way the GCSEs won't matter anyway.

Original poster
KatyMac · 23/08/2013 09:16

Why do parents go along with it? Well the school said that is what they are doing and we could deal with it or move school as they wouldn't timetable for 1 child. Her friendship group was too important to her to move school so.....

Straight GCSEs She has Music, Geography, Spanish & Science and she will be taking Maths, 2xEnglish, a second science & Business so 9 'straight' GCSEs

2xBTEC - Music & Drama & the IT was something else - so even looking at subjects it's 12

Her Uncle (a sixth form teacher) seems to think it's a practise run & she will retake the Cs next year - she won't

It won't affect what DD will be doing at 16/18 but that doesn't stop me feeling it's wrong and shouldn't be run this way. The school has run 3 years of GCSEs this way DD was the middle year & they have stopped now - gee we were an experiment that has been abandoned. Which I resent.

OP posts:
alistron1 · 23/08/2013 09:41

DD1's school practised early entry. The rationale was that in Y11 they could start some AS Levels alongside GCSE. However due to goal post shifting/curriculum change it didn't work out like that.

So she has 14 Gcse passes, 8 at A*/A 5 at B and a C.

It's not schools doing experiments on cohorts, its about planning in response/reaction to ongoing messing about by the powers that be. So direct your resentment in that direction.

tiredaftertwo · 23/08/2013 11:39

Yes, I did not mean that individual parents can take the system on - sorry if it came across like that, OP, I remember your posts about this, agree it is too much, but know you had no choice.

More generally, I suppose I meant that schools "sell" an idea of getting more qualifications as being better - if all parents knew this was not the case, they would not be able to, and if lots of parents challenged it and pointed to the evidence that it is not in children's interests, they would not be able to either. I know schools that have stopped doing early entry maths, I think partly because it didn't work, partly because Ofsted have made clear that if a child can get a A, then a B a year early is not good enough, and partly because parents got wise to university entry requirements in particular and pointed them out to the school.

I think planning in response to what happens to be on the league tables that year has been shown to be a flawed strategy (I know schools are under pressure to do it, I am not blaming them, but recent changes have shown how wrong footed they can then be), so I hope the new fuller league tables and a recognition that what is in them changes, might mean schools actually have more space to do what is best for the child (for example, if so many schools had not dropped MFL because they didn't help league tables positions, there would not have been so many very low ebacc scores the first couple of years).

Original poster
KatyMac · 23/08/2013 14:50

I don't think the school have done right by my DD - but I have no idea how I could have changed it.

My one hope is that by the time she needs to use them, they will be enough for what she wants & she won't be forced to re-take the way that people with O levels have to, so they can study (eg in childcare)

DD should be OK - fingers crossed

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 23/08/2013 15:31

Just tell the school the programme of study is incoherent and unsuitable in your opinion and you'd like a meeting to develop a more rational basis for her examined courses.

BoffinMum · 23/08/2013 15:34

Realistically she needs to drop Business and Drama and resit Spanish and Geography, btw.

BoffinMum · 23/08/2013 15:35

And she should study for a double science award this year.

tiredaftertwo · 23/08/2013 16:46

Maybe they will be more flexible now, given they have changed the system for subsequent year groups, and the league tables have now changed so the pressure is more balanced there - and let her focus on doing core subjects to a high standard this year.

Good luck to your dd.

kilmuir · 23/08/2013 17:47

too many, aim for less with higher grades?? i would be looking for more than grades/number of Gcse's on an application form.

Original poster
KatyMac · 23/08/2013 20:31

The school won't change they have 300 children all part way through 2 year courses (2 year groups)

And they are NOT flexible at all. I considered leaving but to pick up Maths & 2 englishes in one year would be very hard and she would struggle to transfer to another school at this stage.

I have been arguing this for more than 2 years now & it's not going to change.

There is no way to timetable spanish & georgraphy as they were 2 year courses which were run yr9 & yr10

DD has been given strict instructions to concentrate on Maths, 2xEnglish & the 2nd Science. The other 2 are 'just for fun'.

She really has other issues this next year to worry about

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 23/08/2013 22:41

Well apologies on behalf of the education profession. This school seems to be incapable of assembling anything like a coherent programme of study for its pupils.