Sets

[Marmitelover55]

I have been very excited as DD1 has been very lucky to get into a very oversubscribed, Ofsted Outstanding girls academy.

Yesterday, however, at a getting to know you session, the head of year 7 told me that the girls are put into sets based on the non-verbal reasoning test they did back in November (part of the fair-banding entry requirements) and some more computer based tests they will do on an induction day later this month.

The sets are for English, languages, maths and science. I was happy with this until she said that they will be in the same set for all of those subjects. My DD1 is quite good at literacy - predicted a 5a in SATS, but her numeracy skills are not so strong - she is predicted a 4a/5c for this. I am concerned that she will either be in too high a set based on her literacy skills or too low a set based on her numeracy.

Is this common practice and am I right to be concerned? Thanks in anticipation.

There are two ways to place children setting or streaming. With setting, DC are placed in a class on the basis of each subject. With streaming they are assessed in one subject and this is used for all the others.

It might be that they are using the VR tests to initially set, then if they not in the right place for each subject move them up or down. This is quite common.

But if they are streaming then this is more problematic for the reasons you have given. I don't have experience of this, as my DCs school set not stream.

Thanks creamteas - she called it setting but it sounds like streaming. I tried to ask discretely but it was tricky as DD1 was there. She seemed to imply that they would bring her on in weaker subjects, but that might be tricky for her maths, as she really lacks confidence. I can't see how it's going to work well for her unfortunately

I imagine that they will have a reshuffle after a term or so based on classroom performance.

Thanks Niceweather - yes she said there would be some movement, once the teachers have seen how they perform in the classroom. I just can't see how it will work though for DDs like mine who are much better at say literacy than numeracy.

It's not an outstanding school for no reason. I'm sure they know what they are doing. Wait until they have all settled in and see how it goes. Just celebrate she has a place somewhere so good.

I am sure that all the teachers will keep a good record of the students' levels and then they will be set accordingly. There's no reason why your DD couldn't be in top set English and a lower set in Maths.

Hi Kez100 - thanks I have been very, very happy about it, and will try to stop worrying about this aspect of things - they must have encountered it before, and as you say are outstanding.

Niceweather - the problem is that they are put into sets but are in the same set (stream) for English, maths, science and languages.

Thanks.

Hi there, my child school also streams. To be honest, had I had known beforehand I wouldn't have chosen the school (ours too is outstanding). If she's in either of the top say two streams (even at the detriment of her poorer performing subjects) I still think it's the better place for her to be, or if not, after any re-shuffle, for her to be placed there asap.

I spoke with a professor at the IOE who said that broadly speaking, the only children who benefit from streaming are those in the top sets and as time goes by, the gap just gets wider and wider making movement between streams even more restricted. The best teachers are often allocated to the higher streams too.

Personally, I think Gove should have it scrapped. It should be against the law. On a positive note (and for me to find one is a good thing) your school at least it seems has a much more sophisticated system in place for formulating the groups than ours. Setting makes much more sense and is a more fluid system. Even mixed ability is better than streaming in my view.

urbancupcake, really ? 'Against the law' to give more able students an opportunity to be stretched ? I cannot see how holding more able students back helps everyone. Some students will leave Y11 comprehensives at a similar level others start Y7 due to different abilities no how much teaching (especially in areas with no grammar schools), how else can teachers manage everyone's needs without SETS ?

Setting is good. Streaming is (often) bad.

Although there is lots of counter-intuitive evidence for how effective mixed ability teaching is. I find this baffling- but anecdotally, my ds is doing very well in a mixed ability humanities class, so......

Sets are good - i began in Div 3 of 4 and moved up to Div 2 in maths- I was always surrounded by people of a similar level and we could work together on problems. I ended up with an A at GCSE. My best friend was in div 1 and went on to do further maths at A Level - she made me feel like an idiot when we ever did homework together because it baffled her when I didn't just 'get' the maths we were doing. We stopped doing maths hw together as it ended up being useless for us both!

Ps if your daughter lacks confidence, may be worth having some extra help from a tutor or see if your school has a buddy system where 6th formers help younger students. One to one time can really help girls' confidence grow.

In a big school they may stream and set within the streams.

@Barnet: I think you've misunderstood me. I'm all for SETS first and foremost, but am so against streaming so much I think even mixed ability is better. I remember reading some research somewhere (can't remember where), that although on the surface it appears to be at a detriment to higher performers, somehow it works out.

No, my major gripe is with streaming as research shows time and time again it favors only a few. What I've also seen is that movement between them is limited and unfair. It takes a child in a higher stream to be performing incredibly badly across ALL subjects before it allows someone from a lower stream who may be performing 'well' across all subjects to be moved up.

Urban - sorry I must have read too quickly ! Glad we agree :)

@barnet: No worries :0)

Thankyou for all of your views. I heard today that one of the current year 7s says she is in different sets for different subjects at the same school. I am confused now as I am sure that was not what I was told. We have a new parents evening in a couple of weeks, so I will try and find out for sure. I really hope I misunderstood (but don't think I did) - maybe it is something new they are trialling this year...

Sets sound sensible but streaming doesn't

It probably will be sets. Very few stream these days. Best of luck.

Thank you urbancupcake