Moving into rented accommodation in the catchment area-when can I safely move back?

[enlondon]

I am thinking of renting a property in the catchment area of a secondary school. Once I have done this and my child is given a place (presuming everything has gone to plan and the catchment area has not all off the sudden become even smaller etc), how much longer do I need to live there before I can move safely back to our house outside the catchment area? As soon as I have filled in the application? As soon as my child is offered the place? As soon as my child has actually started in September? I actually called the LEA to ask this question and they were not sure. I asked a different LEA the same question about another school and they said that I could move out of the catchment area as soon as the application form was received! They seemed puzzled by my question though, understandably, and not sure if I trust their answer.

If feel sympathy for the OP.
We all want the best for our DCs & it must be really hard to see an outstanding school that's in reach with a some unethical juggling.
I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing if I were in her situation.

MrsDeVere- it's complicated, originally SS were involved and I was hoping they would take DFD into foster care, but as she's so close to 16 (birthday next week, we were looking into this about 3 weeks ago after she'd been with me temporarily for a week) we were told she was too old for fostering and she was offered a flat in a halfway house type place. DFD didn't want to go in there and I didn't think it would offer her the support she needed, plus SS were reluctant to give her that in the first place because they disputed how 'homeless' she actually is. The end result was we declined the SS offer and went down the private fostering route. As I understand it we've turned down the help they offered plus she's 16 next week so will no longer qualify for help anyway :( Although I haven't heard of Child in Need status, just going to google that now. Thank you.

Back to the thread- Diamond, I couldn't agree with you more. I don't have any friends who have done this to my knowledge, but if I did I would seriously consider reporting them. I do feel that strongly about it. I don't understand why this is the one area of the law people in this country feel at liberty to break- it's illegal, just like stealing is illegal. Just because the system is unfair, that doesn't give you the right to cheat it and deprive someone else's child in the process.

It still chills me.

Obviously we all want the very best for our DCs but mostly we draw a line at physically pushing other kids out of the way to get ours to the front of the queue.

Law or not, its ethically execrable.

"I don't understand why this is the one area of the law people in this country feel at liberty to break-"

People are more likely to break laws when they see them as unfair laws - look at the poll tax.

Have read most of the thread

What is the difference between a longer term rental plan (as OP suggests) whilst renting out the 'family' home AND trying to sell the family but not being able to in time and deciding to rent instead?

So it's legal to sell and buy within catchment? But it's not legal to rent and rent in catchment? To me there is no difference.

OP to watertight your plan, I suggest putting your house on the market at a ridiculous unachiveable price, reject any offers that come in. Then determine you have run out of time to move for your preferred school so go down the rental route.

Stay a couple of years.

It's the moving back into the original home which is the giveaway, shattereddreams.

shattereddreams - That would not make the plan watertight.

The question the LA has to consider is whether or not the OP is applying from their permanent address. They don't have to prove she is making a fraudulent application. Reasonable suspicion is enough for them to take action. And, as others have pointed out, most LAs where this happens regularly are now wise to it, fed up with complaints from genuine residents and making efforts to detect it.

Oh, and renting out your home whilst renting a place within catchment is fine provided it is intended to be a long term situation. You may have difficulty persuading the LA that your intentions are honourable if the house you own is nearby but if you are renting out the family home in Carlisle whilst living in rented accommodation in Islington that shouldn't be a problem. What is wrong is renting near a school simply to get a place at the school with the intention of returning to your home once you think you've got away with it.

MrsDeVere thank you so much, that's been really helpful. Is it OK if I PM you?

Surely the obvious solution would be to do what they do in Scotland and everyone go to their nearest school, but the transition would be a nightmare I'm sure.

To those pointing out that you can be an equal distance away from two schools, one good and one special measures, and yet only be in catchment for the SM one, this can be for a number of reasons. If there are more houses between you and the good school, more siblings or more children on the SEN register, then the catchment area will be smaller and you could be out of catchment even though its the same distance IYSWIM.

Even after the transition you still have the problem, as Tiggytape pointed out, that you might have a school with an official capacity of 200 pupils having to cope with 300 or more because it is the closest school for all of them.

I don't understand how the Local Authority would know that you had two different properties in the area because of Council Tax, because the council tax is paid to / collected by the local (district) council, isn't it? Whereas the County Council is the body responsible for school admissions. Or is it different in London and all done by the Borough Council. Where we live there are 5 district councils and one county council, but they are separate bodies.
But doing what the OP is planning to do is wrong on every count - morally, socially and probably legally.

I sympathize and am in a similar position. The school I want my kids to go to is not oversubscribed in catchment and always admits 20 to 30 kids on distance. Some years we'd get in and some not. So if we move closer we're not depriving a child in catchment of a place and might even be getting the place we would have got anyway! We will probably chance getting in from our actual home and consider appealing if necessary.

One of my oldest friends heads up the local investigations team to check applications for both primary and secondary applications .On the occasions we have talked about the role I have been amazed at the amount of info that can be gained without having to leave their desk. The whole thing is taken very seriously and they are able to commit a few people to each case as and when necessary. They don't have to prove anything ,they just have to show reasonable grounds for thinking that this is a misleading application for a dc to lose his/her place. I have seen this happen at primary level 5 times (just at our one form entry local school) in the last 7 years. One mum whose dc missed out on a place to a family who rented a house two doors down from her a few months before the application deadline whilst retaining their other home went to a primary school appeal hearing and pointed out the facts as she saw them as part of her case. She won her appeal and the other child lost their place a few weeks later. In secondary schools it is worse and last year saw one of dc's friends being booted out from his school two days before the end of term....he had been at the school for 15months. I felt so sorry for the dc in question..... 13years old and shocked that his parents had brought this about. They wanted him to say that he was just moving for other reasons but he loved his school and was devastated so he told anyone that asked that his parents had committed fraud so he was kicked out. He pleaded with his ht to be able to stay. I agree that the child who missed out on a place on allocation day will be the unseen loser but for anyone considering this think about how your dc will feel if they have to leave their school and their friends-especially when they are settled and very happy.

tiggytape, I think the answer would be to abolish the siblings rule and to introduce a lottery allocation. That would make entering a school less of a financial decision.

Tiggytape thank-you for your kind offer. I have PM'd you (I think). Never done this before.

I think the sad fact is that as a parent you just feel so desperate. When your dc doesn't get into a school which is a better fit for them and local so that they still feel part of their local community, you really feel as if YOU have failed them. In part I have wondered whether I should have done what the OP is suggesting but these are desperate thoughts at a stressful time.

The ideal is that all schools are good or outstanding. But I don't get schools who push children who are part of their local community away in favour of children who live further out. Yes these further out children need a school to go to but how do children learn about belonging and community when they live in one town and are sent to school in another town. Where does green living come into it and the fact that children are encouraged to walk to school but then can't. It is so topsy turvy and wrong.

A friend of mine did this. I couldn't work out how she had got her dc into a local grammar school and I especially couldn't work it out when the council published admission details showing how many of each category got into the school,ie distance from the school etc. She lives miles out of catchment but there was nothing on the list to reflect this. It was pointed out to me that she probably rented to obtain a place. There is a possibility that she may have bought a flat in order to qualify but with no intention of ever living there. Of course buying gives you the right to send your dcs to the local school even if you have no intention of living there but morally doesn't make it any better (just a higher income level than those who choose to rent in catchment and then move out).

Ds doesn't go to a local school but it hasn't stopped him making local friends but does mean he doesn't see his school friends out of school.

Bisjo, Locally, buying a property but not living there and renting are treated on exactly the same basis - the family's main residence is treated as the actual application address, it makes no difference whether the 'fraud' address is bought or rented.

That's interesting. She didn't talk about how she got her dc into the school and I'd assumed that she must have got in via out of catchment and out of county place but when I saw the list of distances from school for successful applicants I realised that she hadn't. It is a shame as she is taking a place from someone who would have passed the 11+ and lived closer to the school than she does. We are out of county but in catchment and even though it is our closest senior school we wouldn't get in based on distance.