Moving into rented accommodation in the catchment area-when can I safely move back?

[enlondon]

I am thinking of renting a property in the catchment area of a secondary school. Once I have done this and my child is given a place (presuming everything has gone to plan and the catchment area has not all off the sudden become even smaller etc), how much longer do I need to live there before I can move safely back to our house outside the catchment area? As soon as I have filled in the application? As soon as my child is offered the place? As soon as my child has actually started in September? I actually called the LEA to ask this question and they were not sure. I asked a different LEA the same question about another school and they said that I could move out of the catchment area as soon as the application form was received! They seemed puzzled by my question though, understandably, and not sure if I trust their answer.

I'd be fucked then as I own five houses.... so technically if they look at ownership then that counts out a lot of people and they would have a very very hard time proving it. I am not saying it is right (but in the scheme of things I cannot get that worked up about it - same thing with people going to church etc) But seriously if you lived there for several months, which you would have to, probably a year in fact and rented out the original home then it is not fraud and nothing could be done. You would just need to make sure you swapped council tax, electoral role and child benefit to the address and technically it would be legal. Wherever you are registered to vote is technically your home and if the original home is rented to someone else what could be done.

People just hate this sort of thing because they perceive it to be unfair that someone can essentially buy a place.

Pansy,

Owning another home is OK AS LONG AS the reasons behind it stack up - e.g. owned in previous home for previous job, moved to new town for new job, for example, or a property owned but rented out over a sustained period...

However, if the ownership of multiple addresses is manipulated in order to obtain a place - e.g. moving from a house that you have lived in for a long period to one of your rental properties because it happens to be in catchment - then that would be treated as fraudulent misrepresentation of your permanent address, causing a loss of or failure to gain a place.

Just out of interest, does anybody know how this affects homeless families living in temporary accommodation such as B&Bs?

"But seriously if you lived there for several months, which you would have to, probably a year in fact and rented out the original home then it is not fraud and nothing could be done."

Round here, that is exactly what leads to your child's place being removed (even after they have been at the school for some time, though they seem to be getting better at weeding out the dubious applications in advance now)

I still don't get why you don't sell your home and buy another one in the catchment area you want.

Agree with Teacherwith2kids. However much people try to justify this kind of behaviour it is clearly against the rules.

'expat - in London the houses near a great school might cost £100k+ more than houses not near to good schools
You can get a 4 bedroom house in a 'bad' catchment area for the same price as a small 2/3 bedroom in a 'good' catchment area.'

So then you go legit and sell up and buy the 2/3 bedroom. Or you homeschool. You participate in fraud and get caught you deserve what you get. Life is full of compromises. Diddums.

OP, my foster daughter is in year 11 at the crap local comp everyone tries to avoid. When she was in year 6 she was still living with her parents and they put down the nicer, overall better school their home had been in the catchment area for years for as their first choice. My foster daughter lost out on a place at that school by a couple of metres (literally), her parents' appeal failed and she ended up at the crap school. Thanks to getting in with a dodgy crowd and controlling boyfriend while there, the last few years have been a nightmare for her, her mum has chucked her out, she's ended up with me after a period of homelessness and all sorts of other horrid stuff no teenager should have to go through.

Now, I'm not saying that wouldn't have happened had she gone to the better school. I'm also not saying I wish what she went through had happened to someone else's child, because believe me, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But the thought that my child might have lost out on a place at the school she would have been entitled to a place legally at any other year, and therefore at an environment less likely to push her down the path she went down, to someone like you lying and cheating the system to their own advantage quite frankly makes me sick.

Yes but ultimately if you are clever and change electoral register then you will get away with it as long as you have a back story.

Seriously it is not right but not that wrong and it does stack up financially against independent fees. A freind of mine went to Church (and she has 5 children) until the day after she got the last one into the preferred church school. One of her sons is in a Russell Group Uni and the others are all going through school and sixth form and are really successful. Technically it is a bit morally dodgy but I cannot get upset about it. At least those children have a motivated parent willing them to do well.

There is a rash of first holy communions at our school swiftly preceeded by a baptism for a few 9 years olds.... The only decent High School here is Catholic, you work it out. Makes me laugh, the Priest is just rolling his eyes at people suddenly turning up at Church, they all know the score here but cannot refuse to baptise children. My kids go to the school and high school and I pulled no tricks to get in, I would have though.

I cannot believe people get so very upset about this, there are awful things happening in the world and this is not one of them. Most people would do this sort of thing if they had the means to and were faced with their children going to a terrible school or a great one.

But, pansy, the point is that even with changing the electoral register and creating a elaborate lie back story, the LEA may take a look at the relevant dates and decide the change of address is bogus and the person won't "get away with it" at all.

Ooh, I'm worried now. We're currently waiting to find out about admissions for primary.

We moved just before the deadline, from a rented place to a bought house, in a different area of the same town (near the good schools). We intended to move last summer, but one thing and another meant it took ages for everything to go through; in the end we got the house in December and moved in literally a week before the deadline in Jan. There was an overlap of our rented property and our new house, we had both places until after the admission deadline.

Our council asks for your council tax number. I didn't have that at the time of application, but emailed with it when I had it and they replied to say that was fine.

I still haven't got round to moving all of our accounts over to the new place, and we're not on the electoral role yet. Might any of this going to muck up the application?

I meant to say, might any of this muck up the application?

pansy,

I suppose the point is 'how clever - and how long term prepared - do you have to be, in order for your 'back story' to be considered credible'

Currently, your back story
a) has to go back several years, and last most of the duration of your child's time at school (as the threat of place removal remains throughout their time there if entry is found to be fraudulent)
b) has to involve you moving into a property large enough for your family, for several years
c) has to involve a credible disposal of your previous address (as e.g. renting out old house, changing electoral register to new one etc will ONLY be considered non-fraudulent IF there is a good reason other than school entry for the move - simply owning another house will be grounds for investigation so the back story has to add up long-term)

Basically, the aim seems to be trying to make 'avoiding being found out for fraud' at least as expensive as 'doing it properly' - ie moving into catchment as your only residence - and to make 'the risk of being found out' sufficiently large that iut does not seem worth taking.

Have you still got a tenancy agreement for the rented place? As Tiggytape has said several times, it isn't moving house that is the problem. It's the short term move where a family has kept hold of the former home do that they can move back in once they've got a school place. Assuming that you have given up the rented property, and have sorted out all the other paperwork with utility companies etc, I can't see why that should muck anything up.

Agree with ComeIntoTheGarden. The overlap is not a problem, because I presume that you no longer rent the previous property, and it should be ckear from your paper trail that your move is to your sole home, which happens to be in catchment.

You may, of course, get asked some questions about it. But you have nothing to hide, so submitting everything - title deeds, exchange dates, notice letter for renatl property etc etc - would show an innocent sequence of events very clearly.

I think you are over estimating the resources that most LEAs have. I think they would only investigate something very obvious or someone who had been indiscreet. They do not have the power to bring you in and question you and look into your private affairs, they would need a court order for that and they would have to take a risk financially with lawyers etc that they would win.

I want to be clear I am not agreeing with someone doing this although I am in a place where the worst schools are not too bad so I am not sure how desperate people can get in these situations. Going to the right school can be transforming and although I am not proud to admit it I would do it too. I have a DD with SN, we are moving heaven and earth to get her in the right place - renting another place and denying another child, well you know if I am honest I could live with it. As it happened we are moving lock stock and barrel and sending her to an independent. But I have that choice and some people don't due to work etc.

To be honest I think this might be a London thing, round here no one gives a rats ass.