What is in an accent?

[Kenlee]

I was talking to my sister about accents today. Her son a final year student at UMIST has the most wonderful Mancunian accent. Whereas I have a very broad Lancashire accent.

I was a bit surprised that she did not approve of ny daughter going to a Surrey school to get a posh accent. Actually it was more to do with logistics than accents.

Anyway di accents really matter...I am of the belief that it doesnt ...

I don't think having a regional accent disadvantages anyone these days. No doubt in the past it marked you out as uneducated to those who considered themselves above you. That must have changed or at least started to change in the 1960s. These days I think you do best with a light regional accent. It is what most people will easily understand and probably like. I struggle to understand people from Glasgow personally but most accents in the UK we are exposed to now via TV, radio, film so I don't think many people would genuinely struggle to understand each other.

it is true for a foreigner who has learned English, it can be quite deflating to go to the UK and not understand what is being said because the pronunciation is so different to what was taught in class. A British dc who had learnt German in school and then went to Bavaria could be in for quite a shock too. However, young people spend so much time on the internet watching videos so maybe they are becoming exposed to a lot of different English accents that way.

I have met Americans too who have told me they absolutely cannot understand English accents. It surprises me but some do seem to genuinely find a lot of English accents unintelligible.

Really?? You honestly have no Welsh/Scottish/American/South African/Australian/Indian etc, friends or work colleagues? I find that very hard to believe. You must work in the most parochial business in England

No we dont, and I have said it before in several threads. I find it hard to work out how so many seem to think that because they are exposed to multi cultural Britain so are the rest of us.

Multi cultural and accented Britain may goon around me but all of thoseI associate with,regardless of where they come from speak the same way.

I find in Canada ( where I spend a lot of time) , speaking proper English is an advantage. I also find at school speaking with a standard accent means most of our students from overseas - although they are a minority in the school,

(mostly Hong Kong and Singapore) speak the same accent too, having been taught it in international schools before they come to us.

Ronaldo - you say "I will not subject my DS to any kind of accent that can place him as different - why should I? DC need to feel they fit in."

Surely you must see that in areas other than your own, being "different" and "not fitting in" are more likely caused by not having some version of the local accent?

When we moved back up here, DS was considered to have an English accent. He quickly picked up a soft South-East-Scotland accent. It is polite, sounds educated, and is easily understood by everyone he meets. But it is in no way "RP" or "standard English".

It enabled him to fit in, and has in no way reduced his chances of "getting on in life".

Surely you must see that in areas other than your own, being "different" and "not fitting in" are more likely caused by not having some version of the local accent?

But my DS is not going to school anywhere else and he needs to fit here and now. Neither do I want or need him elsewhere. There is plenty of time for that -and by then he will be secure in his own self and his own accent anyway and it wont matter.

I suspect it will be very unlikely that he will ever need to have a regional accent or be disadvantaged by the form of English we speak to be brutally honest. Thosearethe circleswe move in and the ones I hope and expect him to remain in.Ofcourse no one can plan entirely but if he needs to change accent, he is a firstclass musician and so I imagine would pick up any accent if he needed.

I can speak with any accent like a native if you expose me to it for a couple of hours b ut doing so ( although not deliberate)was when I was young considered mimicary and even taking the p*ss It wasnt. So I decided to make sure I spoke clear unadulterated English. Its never held me back since then.

Yes, but you seem to be saying that everyone is better off speaking RP/standard English. That it is fundamentally better for every person's life choices. And I am saying that it is most definitely not when you live in parts of the country where it marks you out as being "different" rather than it being the norm, which is seems to be in your area/circle.

I don't mean that your child would be better not speaking standard English. I mean that you should not generalise from what suits you to what everyone else ought to do and value.

I can speak with any accent like a native if you expose me to it for a couple of hours b ut doing so ( although not deliberate)was when I was young considered mimicary and even taking the p*ss It wasnt. So I decided to make sure I spoke clear unadulterated English. Its never held me back since then.

I love that Ronaldo can go on about the importance of speaking clear unadulterated English whilst not being able to write it

I expect Ronaldos Hong Kong and Singaporeans who had been in International Schools spoke with the same expat brat accent my own DDs spoke in, a sort of Aussie/US /Brit hybrid where every sentence ends with an annoying upward tone as if asking a question, and is liberally peppered with "sooo"s and "like"s. definitely not RP, but they are adaptable these expats

Of course what we haven't explored the sexiness of accents. French men can be asking the price of a pint of milk and make my knees quiver, ditto Sean Bean in a Yorkshire accent or James McAvoy in the islands accent he adopted when I saw him in Macbeth this week (sexiness that even persisted through vomiting, murder and having his head chopped off)

And I could make out every word he said

Just wanted to say it's Huw Edwards.

You should never judge an old man with fat arthritic fingers by his ability (or lack of it) to type and know the keyboard well

If I were a child, you would never have dared make those comments. Shows you up for the people you are I suppose - behaviour is as behaviour does even when its a typeface here.

But I tell you what you go and expose your DC to whatever accents you like and I will keep teaching my DS to speak RP - or standard accent less English.

And we will meet up in 20 years and see who is laughing then and where our DC have got in life (when your hearing is like mine and you cant make out the words of that lovely gordie lilt anymore either).

Ronaldo Have you never heard of "judge not, lest you be judged" I was merely giving back, like for like.

DDs are just fine thanks, DD1 at elite uni and speaks well enough to have been chosen to demonstrate the fascination of her subject in a famous national museum this summer, even if she does occasionally betray her mothers origins with the odd flat vowel. Mostly however she sounds dead posh

And actually my hearing is terrible, inherited from deaf grandfather but I have never noticed it being selectively worse depending on accent.

I am not a Christian. I prefer an eye for an eye myself

Kenlee, non native speakers do not give a toss for RP. If they do not understand a word, they do not think that it is something wrong with the speaker, and "gap ya" is no better than "Oh mi lads, you shudv seen us gunning" in that sense.

What matters is the clarity of individual pronunciation, not the dialect spoken. And that clarity, yes, correlates positively with higher educational level and a habit of public speaking.

I never wanted to convey that non native speakers feel that people who have accented English have something wrong with them. Although, I have done presentations to the Non native speakers (NNS). I have found that the message is more easily conveyed when the accent is more neutral. I do suppress my Lancashire accent because I have been told on numerous occasions that they do not understand the accent. I do realize that some accents are more easily understood than others.

I certainly do not feel that any particular accent conveys intelligence. Although some accents are much easier on the ears than others.

I find in Canada ( where I spend a lot of time) , speaking proper English is an advantage.

I seem to recall that your DW is Canadian. Have you told her how incomprehensible you find her accent, or is it only UK and Irish accents and dialects you hold in contempt?

And students who have been to International Schools don't speak RP - they tend to speak SAE, often with a marked high rising terminal. They find RP hilariously quaint though.

I codeswitch in every language I speak.

I just can't help it: when in Rome you know.

I find it's easier to be understood if you mirror the accent of those you're with.

I went to speech and drama classes as a youngster and learned rp.

I have no idea what my 'real' accent is, as wherever I am I'm seen as being slightly different and unclassifiable - suits me Ma'am, as in ham!

Facinating topic. As someone upthread said, everyone has an accent. Years ago I remember a drama teacher (this was an American in the US so could be completely wrong) discussing British RP and explaining that it was not quite the same as British upper class ("gel, etc."), that the upper class accent was as distinctive as cockney, but just not regional.

The Standard American accent that is used by newspeople and most actors is actually a form of the midwest accent (Western New York, Ohio, Michigan).
Many Americans with regional accents can switch to it easily if need be. I do it when in other parts of the US or in the UK almost without thinking about it (I have a mild Southern accent.)

I have travelled all over the UK and usually have no trouble understanding anyone but I have a good ear. My husband does have trouble sometimes; he says the easiest accents for him to understand are the ones from the Highlands and Islands of Scotland.

the "Oxbridge" accent is absolutely fine in certain circles and professional suicide in others.
ditto the "scouse" accent
BUT
accents cease to be relevant so long as the grammar and diction are clear
and only a narrow minded snob thinks otherwise

I seem to recall that your DW is Canadian. Have you told her how incomprehensible you find her accent, or is it only UK and Irish accents and dialects you hold in contempt?

Thats a rather nasty and uncalled for comment. My DW is not a topic here. I said she spoke RP as I do. She did this before I met her, so nothing to do with me. I find her spken English quite clear ,thank you.

And students who have been to International Schools don't speak RP - they tend to speak SAE, often with a marked high rising terminal. They find RP hilariously quaint though

Mine dont. They speak with the same kind of accent ( or lack of ) as any other student in school. Some of the weaker ones may have trouble with pronunciation sometimes but that isnt something to snigger at.

Clearly those people you mix with are not the sameas those I mix with - or are they all as nasty as you? In which case I am glad I do not have to meet you in person.

They speak with the same kind of accent ( or lack of ) as any other student in school

I reiterate what I said on Thursday

What is an accent?
It is a way of pronouncing your words differently from the person you are addressing such that they notice.
If you have the same accent, neither person will notice.

They speak with the same kind of accent ( or lack of ) as any other student in school

I reiterate what I said on Thursday

What is an accent?
It is a way of pronouncing your words differently from the person you are addressing such that they notice
If you have the same accent, neither person will notice

I think your answer to that is in my brackets . I know that we all speak the same way where I work. Thats it as I am concerned.

So are your children going to come and work for you rather than making their own way in the world?

and does the office cleaner and do all the PAs and backroom IT staff really have the same accent as those of you who think you actually run the place?

I take it the above is addressed to me TP?

I am not sure what the former part of that has to do with anything other than promoting an agenda that everyone should be mixing and matching. In my school we just seem to be a single happy community in that respect.

I have no idea what the students will do in due course. I expect a large proportion will goon to Oxford or Cambridge before launching themselves on the world though.

Our cleaners ( worth their weight in gold for the things they do) tend to speak with a local accent. They are local so that shouldnt be so surprising surely?

PA's and backroom staff ( as you refer to them) have the same diction as those who "actually think they run the place"