Evangelising organisations invited into RE lesson

[AScorpionPitForMimes]

I am really not at all happy about this.
DD (yr7) came home with a pair of 3D glasses from an organisation called GSUS Live. There wasn't much info there, so I had a look at their website her and was abit , so dug a bit deeper for their overarching website, an organisation called Counties here - now I am very unhappy. Clearly this is an organisation aiming to 'recruit' young people into Christianity, and I don't think this is appropriate for an RE lesson in a non-faith school.

I'm in two minds as to what to do - if this was a one-off visit I can just about tolerate it - DD was also very about it as she an atheist like me, and she certainly isn't about to get herself recruited. However,if the content of RE lessons in the school are going to be heavily influenced by evangelical Christians, then I have a problem with that. Should I ask to have a polite word with DD's RE teacher? I have no intention of going in all guns blazing, I'm not a militant atheist at all, but I would like to know just what my DD is going to be taught, who by, and how.

Why would you think they were going to heavily influence the lessons? Is it part of their mission statement?

I think I would have a word during parents evening or similar, but it's a bit early to assume that they are even returning, let alone dominating the curriculum?

I see what you mean but I had a look at the lesson walk through (bottom right on your first link) and didn't find that too bad.

Yes, I would have a word with the teacher to find out what is going on here. Learning about religions is one thing, but being encouraged to join one is another. They should be open to parents about this kind of thing, so taht parents can decide whether their child should attend. Our schools is a rather evangelical C of E one. They have a weekly evangelical club with people coming in. It is at least a lunch club rather than a lesson (but they use sweets to get the children in, which is not nice).

tribpot the overarching organisation clearly states that it is an evangelising organisation, so yes, I'm assuming they're out to recruit. I also find their stated adherence to the Bible disturbing - I'd be very surprised if they were accepting of homosexuality, for example.

And they may not be returning, but someone asked them to come. I'd like to know what motivated that person.

ZZZenAgain I had a look at the lesson plan and on the surface it does all seem very nice and reasonable, but the way every scenario includes a 'Jesus' option which is clearly phrased so as to be preferable to any of the others worries me. It's perfectly possible to deal with difficult life situations without resorting to the Bible, and these scenarios clearly present the faith option as better than any of the others, because no sensible secular option is offered.

Dromedary I find bribing children with sweets to attend an evangelical lunchtime club very disturbing.

I'd have an issue about it.

But then, many supposedly sensible schools make shoeboxes up for Operation Christmas Child, which is an organisation that links aid to active evangelism (or rather exchanbing aid for promised attendance at enangelical events for children, even in countries with strong faith traditions of their own) in a particularly blatant way....

Oh terrific - even the shoebox thing is corrupt.

I have nothing against the idea of exploring Christianity, as long as they compare other faith alongside it and also the concept of atheism and agnosticism.

We opted out of the shoebox thing for precisely that reason, teacher.

Thanks all for the comments, I think I'm going to get in touch with the school to make some time to speak with DD's RE teacher, just to get some clarification.

I'm just glad she felt she could come to me about it.

I've heard of GSUS as last year they held different days at secondaries in different parts of Surrey, think its part of RS that schools are allowed to contract out similar to having visiting vicars etc take their lessons, the schools I know of have established links with churches in the local area for 'outreach' by youth workers (assemblies etc) which the head of department and senior management seem to source for parts of the rs curriculum HTH

I'm an atheist too and, like you, would also be a bit about this.

However, understanding why groups of people believe what they do is an important part of life and it's my understanding that this philosophical angle is where most modern RE courses are coming from and I'm quite happy with this.

As long as students are being encouraged to look at this organisation's methods and practices in an objective way - i.e why do they think the way they do - I think it would be OK.

However, the extent to which Yr7 children are able to apply the level of objectivity needed to critically appraise this organisation's motives and practices would also concern me. It may seem to a bunch of 11 and 12 year olds that this organisation is coming into school to teach something as fact and that always concerns me. For me, the line is crossed the moment that religious views are taught or presented as facts or universal truths.

I think I'd be having a word if I were in your shoes.

AScorpion - it would be great if you could report back once you've spoken to the school.

Dromedary. Of course the shoebox thing is corrupt - I thought that everyone knew that?

Filling shoeboxes with items of limited usefulness is such a hugely inefficient method of sending aid, anyway, that tbh any organisation that is willing to organise it must have some motive other than the efficient helping of those in greatest need.....

Teacher - DC's C of E school have kept that very quiet. I wonder whether any of the high number of Muslim parents have caught on? I feel very let down now (not for the first time). We got really into buying a nice mix of presents for the shoebox recipient.

Is it part of a balanced programme involving visits from representatives of the other major faiths as well? if so, probably not a problem. If not, even as a nominally Christian parent I would not be happy, if I was of another faith I would be livid.

Schools are supposed to provide religious education, not just Christian education.

I'd be asking the school about this too. Maybe suggest they have the Humanist Association in next?

I've spoken to DS's primary school about an almost identical issue. They have an evangelical group coming in to do assemblies from time to time. In principle that doesn't bother me as long as there is a balance (ie as long as the Imam comes in from time to time, ditto the rabbi etc). Except that the latter two don't happen and my DS has a tendency to come home saying that he's a Christian because Jesus came to earth to save him and he's glad of that and therefore is a Christian. Hmmm. Much discussion about what, precisely, he thinks he's been saved from (couldn't answer this) and what he meant by being saved (ditto) and I went in to have a word.
I don't think their answer was quite adequate, but if nothing else, they know that parents are concerned about it. At the same time we make sure at home the difference between "Christians believe" and "I believe". (That said, I don't mind if he chooses to become a Christian when he's old enough to understand what he's choosing).

I suppose for me it would depend on how the speaker presented themselves during the lesson. If the talk was purely educational, I wouldn't have a problem, but if it got a bit "preachy" then I would.

We are a Christian family, but a progressive one, so I certainly wouldn't want some kind of evangelical preaching at my children.

A friend of mine complained to her son's school, as they had some kind of evangelical speaker during an R.S. lesson, and the speaker had gone down the whole 'abortion is wrong' route. As a fellow progressive, my friend is pro-choice, and it's something she has imparted on to her son. However, he came home after this speaker, and was quite confused. It had got to him. Needless to say, my friend was outraged.

The school had received other complaints too, and they admitted this speaker had gone further then he should, and said he wouldn't be invited back.

Dromedary:

www.samaritanspurse.uk.com/ UK website of organisation behind the shoeboxes.

www.samaritanspurse.org/ The US website - less coy about what they actually do.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Graham Some information about the founder - a strong anti-Islamicist.

sites.google.com/site/occalert/Home an 'anti-website - equally biassed in its way, but does have a link to the literature given out with the shoeboxes.

Thank you all again, definitely time for a fact-finding mission, methinks! Haven't had a chance to draft anything as I have been out on snowy roads all day, but will get round to it tomorrow and get back to you all.

It seems barmy to me that, even in a non C of E school (though I have my views on those too), it is permissible for the head teacher basically to bring people in to convert the children. I think it's very unlikely that this kind of group is coming in to give some kind of objective example of Christianity, and will be followed by similar groups from Muslim, Hindu, Jewish communities, etc. It's almost certainly a matter of the Head being a Christian, and wanting to use his/her position to recruit to the Church.