Clegg jnr to go to state-funded comp

[LondonMother]

Just an ordinary state school, after all the talk - he's going to the London Oratory.

Are they still doing their dodgy interviewing, which Ruth Kelly waved through for them when she was Sec of State for Education?

As I said before, I would be very surprised if there aren't many, many poor Catholics living very close to London Oratory, it being in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham. How far away do pupils have to live to be within travel distance? It's only about 3 miles south of Shepherd's Bush.

I understand the Westfield Shopping Centre is considered to be quite nice, but I didn't think it had regenerated the area that much?

Poor Catholics aren't actively prevented from going there though are they?

I realise there are a lot of hoops to jump through, but they don't cost money. I can see why people don't think schools funded by state money should have entry criteria based on faith, but that is a separate issue to the one about which school Clegg Junior goes to,

Nick's clearly keen for his children to avoid mixing with the hoi polloi - those nice people he's supposed to represent and who pay his wages. The London Oratory excludes ordinary kids - I'm sure Clegg will be very happy he'll not have to risk bumping into 'the wrong sort' at parents evening.

Am chortling at the post that referred to him as a left winger - in what, way, exactly?! What has he EVER done that could possibly be described as left-wing? He's an economic liberal i.e. closer to Thatcher than Labour. Very pro the EU. But has pursued policies that harm the poor and the vulnerable and threaten the survival of the NHS - not very left-wing at all.

The hoops are there to stop poor children getting in. They may not involve handing over cold hard cash, but they do discriminate against vulnerable families, who are less likely to be able to play the system. I wonder whether they get the nanny to do the flower rota?

But point is Msr. Clegg lives in Putney, NOT Hammersmith or Fulham, and very DEF not in Shepherds Bush etc (Cleggs in in a veree naice >>£1m house in Putney)... Putney being WAY further than many nearer boroughs, and de facto presumably further away than significant number of fully fledged and well intent Catholics IN those boroughs who have NOT been offered places. As said previously, my understanding is that Clegg Junior DOES 'fit' the religious 'criteria'... but I would be STAGGERED if there were not, other equally 'qualified', candidates who might be nearer yet did not get a place.

And the fact Tony Blair's DS's went there, when there is a MUCH nearer RC school with way less good results/way less 'middle class' strategic entries IS unfortunately the thing that makes you go a bit about Clegg Junior admission. Ditto fact Blairs used Sacred Heart in Hammersmith - when AGAIN, much nearer faith schools to No.10 where living at the time.

System stinks IMHO.

Not to stand up for the Cleggs too much, but Fulham is just over the bridge from Putney, so Clegg Jr might be able to walk to school, depending on which bit of Putney they live in.

Anyway, my point was the same as yours, which is that there is no need for the London Oratory not to have a more mixed demographic, if they are just another local Catholic school.

If he has other RC schools closer to his home, then that's a fair point, but I don't think there is anyone fundamentally wrong with parents having a choice of schools. We shouldn't be obliged to send our children to the nearest school just for the sake of it if there is another one that suit them better somewhere else. My children don't go to the closest schools, and I wouldn't be very happy at being forced to send them to the closest schools for no reason.

I don't think hoops are there just to stop poor children getting in. They might be there to ensure that all parents are like minded, but that's not the same thing.

As said previously, my understanding is that Clegg Junior DOES 'fit' the religious 'criteria'... but I would be STAGGERED if there were not, other equally 'qualified', candidates who might be nearer yet did not get a place.

I think that's the key question for me too. Are there any sink estates nearby which would normally be in the catchment area?

I think faith schools should ignore the parents altogether, as it's not the parents who are attending the school. It's the children.

They should only admit children who pass a lie detector test showing they TRULY believe in the existence of hell and the virgin birth.

It'd be very interesting. I suspect the class sizes would end up being on the small size.

Of course there is social housing within reasonable distance of the school. But proximity to the school is not any part of its oversubscription criteria, so it has no catchment. However, Putney is really not very far - just a couple of stops on the tube so it is not an unreasonable choice for the Cleggs.

The hoops do effectively prevent lower ability children entering the school; as someone said upthread, the ability spread is very similar to some of the less selective grammar schools. While it is reasonable for a Catholic school to favour Catholic families, the LO does seem to pick and choose its Catholics very carefully.

DH was brought up as a Catholic and according to him some of his aunts lived in Church. They were working class of Irish extraction. That should make them ideal candidates for a Catholic school. I wonder how many like that would get in?

Know Clegg's address (though obv not going to post it... do NOT want men in uniform with guns on my doorstep and they very def do NOT live Putney Bridge/just over bridge from Fulham bit... Abide in the UBER expensive at furthest poss distance from that bit. And yep, LOTS of 'sink estates' nearer from Clem Atlee Court/Lille Road in Fulham (walking distance...); West Ken estate (ditto) - you get gist. And i find it very hard to believe there are NOT families there who are RC but do NOT have the same strategic entry opps as many other.

Bed now, rant at politicians condemning soooooo many DCs to horrific schools whilst ensuring THEIR DC's get into best is now over...

La Volcan Do you mean would the aunts get in? Actually I think you will find it is the daughters and granddaughters of those Irish working class aunts that are jumping through the hoops to get their DSs into these schools but they aren't working class, and once mission is accomplished they will NOT be doing any more cleaning.....

Clouds I don't think many would say that the criteria are designed to exclude the disadvantaged, poor and low attainers, I am sure they are designed to ensure the school serves the Catholic community. If you read the school adjudicators report which has ruled the service criteria discriminatory (link further back) they accepted as much, however the unintended side consequence is that the poor, the disadvantaged and the parents of low attainers are less likely to know about and be able to fulfil those commitments.

Shag Going on DDs' friends at Oratory, you can lead a horse to water etc.

imagines classroom filled with Mrs Doyles Can't see the Oratory going for that somehow.

What about the Polish/other eastern European communities? Don't they baptise later, but are every bit as devout as DHs aunts? Would they get in?

Clegg's address has been picketed before by protesters, it's not a secret. It's twice as far from the Oratory as his local Catholic school (which is not nearly as elitist), and more than four times as far as the ARK Academy, which is their local school, which they didn't even visit.

On Stoic's point, Daddy Clegg is in fact an atheist (although he no longer proclaims this bluntly like he used to) and no kind of Catholic at all. Mummy is the Catholic.

In terms of a Catholicness (?) test, I think being baptised is a reasonable requirement, but excluding a child for being baptised at 7 months rather than 5 months, or indeed AGE 7, is absurd. Anything beyond a simple 'send us your baptism certificate' is going to be more and more exclusive.

I am just that an atheist would countenance sending their dcs to a faith school at all. I know LO has good exam results, but allowing your children to be exposed to all that superstition and guilt jeez. I'd rather have well adjusted dcs with mediocre exams. (I went to sacred heart, db to LO). DH is an atheist and against all faith schools no way would he send the dcs.

But his wife is not an atheist and he has allowed his kids to have a Catholic upbringing, its not like he's just suddenly appeared at the altar in the last 2 years. Ultimately, it is a selective school, they can pick who they like and they have picked Clegg Jnr. I think it is highly unlikely that Clegg Snr would risk the political fall out of it being discovered they had not in fact met the criteria. It would be less damaging to just go private than that. You can disagree with faith schools, selective schools, sharp elbowed MC parents all you like, but the Cleggs are doing nothing that most of us wouldn't do to send our kids to the bests school for them. I live in Herts - some of the best schools in the county are in Harpenden which is one of the most expensive places in the country to live. Only a few areas that are less affluent, like Batford and some areas of Redbourn get their kids into one of the three state schools, two of which are standard comps (the other is C of E). many parents spend £££ on their mortgage every month to live near enough to get a place and then are self righteous about the fact they are not sending their kids private but it amounts to the same thing. They are buying a place in a school, just doing it via their mortgage instead of fees. I find that less palatable than what the Cleggs have done. (Though I get why they do it and would probably do the same if I had the funds as I would rather my kids went to a Harpenden school than where I currently live)

Just expressing my surprise

I think his wife is the key here, she is a staunch Catholic so those children will have had a Catholic input from early on and gone to Mass, Holy days of obligation etc, they more than meet the criteria.

My DS and I are aCatholic too....genuinely so but only in the last two years so we would not count. DS is already in a Catholic school but wasn't Catholic when he started in Reception....he was baptised last year in Y4 and did his first Holy Communion a few weeks later. Not good enough for the Oratory I doubt....but as we live nowhere near it doesn't matter....he will go to the local Catholic secondary where again 40% of children will not be Catholic....and tbh I prefer that.

...unless of course I can get him into a special school (he is autistic) but that appears as difficult as the Oratory

I would also say @wish that DS knows lots of people have different faiths or none at all. The school despite being Catholic has a large non Catholic intake as well which they cater for. As such there are lots of discussions about faith there and none. Half the teachers are non Catholic too as are some f the Governing body. I think this is right and healthy....too much of one thing makes it all very insular.

but the Cleggs are doing nothing that most of us wouldn't do to send our kids to the bests school for them.

This is the point. I find it very hard to believe that most parents wouldn't do exactly the same in their position. Plenty of parents do whatever they possibly can to ensure their children get the best education possible, their jobs are irrelevant. Clegg's role as a parent is more important than his role as an MP, and while I don't particularly like the man anyway, I'd have a lot less respect for him if he didn't do his best for his children and used them to score political points.

^I think faith schools should ignore the parents altogether, as it's not the parents who are attending the school. It's the children.

They should only admit children who pass a lie detector test showing they TRULY believe in the existence of hell and the virgin birth.

It'd be very interesting. I suspect the class sizes would end up being on the small size. ^

Shagmundfreud, that's a fascinating idea - would certainly be a boon for a highly religious 10 year old whose parents are atheists and refuse to baptise him / her or take them to church let alone do extra flower arranging .

But - tbf - (to the best of my knowledge) the main point of faith schools is for parents to have their children indoctrinated into the faith of their choice, whether the child is a believer at the age of 10/11 or not.