The Trinity-Whitgift thread of 2013 continued

[Somelikeithott]

Hi all as I posted on previous thread, I realised we had hit the 1000 mark, do felt obliged to open a new one. Hope everyone finds this thread easily

I think a 'thin' year relates to the fact that for the 11+ cohort it is a low birth rate year - certainly next year and the year after are a much higher birth rate ie there are more children in total in the year group chasing the places.

Fat/thin year: The current year 5 and 7 in most local prep schools have been jam-packed, with waiting lists. Years 4 and 6 have spaces, and in some schools have one less class than in 5 and 7. Obviously W&T take half their boys from state schools, but the prep schools provide a steady stream of feepayers, and this is a business after all.

And again, please read what is being said carefully. No-one has said that you can phone up and just get a place. But, they haven't filled their offers, and W has a date for a late entrance test at the start of next term to pick up boys who may be suitable but didn't apply first time round. This isn't new, it happens each year, and if you have checked on previous threads it has certainly been mentioned on here before, but I think that this test wasn't used last year as they did fill their offers, and boys were left on the waiting list. Again there is no suggestion that they will take simply anyone who can pay. And we know boys who have sat the late test and been awarded scholarships at that sitting.

Finally Cinder55 mentioned that the wide social mix gives certain problems. She has not implied that it is those on bursaries who are the problem.

I totally agree, with your initial response to cinder's post burntout. It's what I was thinking of posting last night when I read the post, but couldn't sum up the energy to do so!!

Too many unfounded, rumours going round. I just don't see the need for comparisons in this way. I know of a boy who finished the whitgift exams, including VR ( with time to spare, and did well overall). But couldn't quite finish the English paper at T, and found the T exam generally more difficult. He got a good academic scholarship at T, but didn't get one at W. I think we all generally agree both schools are fantastic ( even though not top tier). And some people, including us have found it a bit difficult to make a choice. But now we have done, we are happy with this.

What amazes me though, is that on this thread that has been very wonderful and supportive, is that the poster who changed the tone ( repeatedly has gone quiet). Unfortunately, they are not who they claim to be!!!!! That poster has also posted contradicting information about themselves, as well some untrue 'facts'. I wonder if they didn't get the desired offer from W, or maybe no offer at all. Hence the need to have a dig at W, despite them saying they have opted for T, which is their preferred school and turned down a substantial scholarship offer from W. Why can't you make your decision, be happy with it and move on? No need to try and put other school(s) down. Sorry if I'm getting personal, but I couldn't hold my tongue ( or fingers), for much longer.

Can't read this back, so please excuse typos.

Lol! Croydon mums re rose tinted specs!!!

Ladymuck - your insight is always great and you are a voice of reason but this is copied from Cinder55 post:

It is also an open secret there that if your DS has not got a place elsewhere and did not try initially for Whitgift then a full fee place can be secured there today.

I really don't think this leaves room for interpretation but personally I view it as an opinion being expressed and not as a hard fact.

Hott yes please lets just forget all the rumours and move on. Glad you have challenged the rogue in our midst as it surely can't have escaped the notice of at least a few others!
Now can we back back to beer and curry or wine and nibbles and preseason friendlies (although starting to have visions of angry parents screaming at each other - my schools better then your school - na na na na naaahh)!!!!!!!!!!!!

despite them saying they have opted for T, which is their preferred school and turned down a substantial scholarship offer from W.

hott I am confused, I thought Cinder said her DC are all at W?

Still following this thread with pleasure in spite of having opted for another school btw!

Woah. Just logged on and found a vast amount to read. My ds is off to T so can't have a personal perspective to add to that thread
I think (running a non-academic school myself and dealing with parents) that ultimately, you can't please all the people all the time and that took me while to realise. I do my best and work hard to be fair, encourage children etc... but still, some people will feel hard done by or aggrieved at certain decisions. It's mostly to do with the individual parents having unrealistic expectations of their children or what the school can achieve and not knowing enough about standards and defining characteristics (natural ability) to see what I, as a professional , can see.

I really feel that with parents as dedicated as you all seem to be, your ds's will continue to succeed wherever they go and you should all be proud to have gone with your instincts and taken the difficult steps towards securing the right school for your child.

My ds is in a very good state school where the teachers are great, and he has had some extra attention (being on the gifted and talented register) over his time there to extend his maths ability far past the level his year were working at. They've supported him really well but my DH and I both knew yr 6 would be treading water and going to a fantastic state secondary (which we're in spitting distance of) would not instil the drive or challenge in him as an individual.
So I made a choice to potentially take him away from his friends and the school he loves (which he was initially not happy about) and try this school that we literally fell in love with when we looked round last October.
He is now chomping at the bit to go and cannot wait to get to all the clubs on offer and really extend his learning.

I would imagine most of you are the same - you saw a benefit in your ds going elsewhere and so took steps to realise that so bravo to you all.

There will be good and not so good everywhere I guess, different pressures and conflicts but that is how real life is and I would rather my ds experience these life lessons in a supportive environment where I feel I can trust the teachers and faculty than live unrealistically through the next 7/8 yrs in a hot house environment getting souped up to just get Oxford/Cambridge.

Incidentally, my ds informed me on the way home from test that he didn't finish the maths or the verbal reasoning papers so when that phone call came for the interview - I was very shocked!!!

We still have cheesy grins on our faces every time someone approaches one of us to congratulate ds on getting in to T and haven't heard a bad word against it....and if I did.?.?. I'd still be grinning like a Cheshire Cat!!!

hardboiled - I think hott is referring to a previous poster who managed to get my (peacock) feathers ruffled.
Yes, let's move on. I'll also keep on my rose-tinted glasses, if only to hide the fact that I'm one of the state school products feeling so incredibly privileged to give my child such an amazing opportunity that I have been suckered into existence of beans on toast..
Well, bring it on. Maybe we're lucky we're in a thin year and our sons only had to pass the test (and I thought it was my specially purchased exec looking jacket that swayed the interview and the fact that I could get through it without cursing once!).
Now hoping that DS2 also has a thin year. What does the current Year 2 intake look like?

racegirl - what a lovely post. You are so right and verbalised perfectly what I suspect many of us think.
I'm the other Cheshire Cat..

I will therefore be easily recognised as the grinning lunatic wearing the same jacket all year round suffering the bad side effects of baked beans..

I think a 'thin' year refers to a low birth rate year , which I have always understood the 2001/2002 birth year ( academic year ) to be. This was the last declining birth rate year and it has continued to steadily increase since then ( hence the pressure on Primary places in the last few year s )

yummymummy actually lol'ed
I bet that was a sentence you could never have envisioned yourself saying a few months ago. To virtual friends.

Glad we are back on track. Inspired by nothingyummymummy I think I have finally figured out the real meaning of a thin year - what we will all be in a years time after living on baked beans walking to school etc etc in order to pay fees. I guess that means by the time we leave we'll be a skeletel year.

I think hot is referring to 'real life'???????. Wow intrigue now , this thread is becoming like a real life soap.
Can see the opening sequence now....

A mum sitting in a two bed flat overlooking a 6 bed house and waiting for the phone to ring with some news. looking wistfully at the neighbours pool ..
A dad, secretly addicted to a website dedicated to mums is frantically posting his innermost thoughts before his wife gets home....
Cut to Croydon and to a mum contemplating selling all she owns to join a lucrative business venture hiring donkeys to those kids on bursaries at the local school...
The mum with twins has not been heard from in a while, maybe she's visiting her relative in Cheam..
There is some confusion at the goings on and rumours abound, something is a foot - a mysterious figure with a name like a fairytale princess has cast sadness over the entire cast - but then the local Hottie suggests that she isn't who she says she is????????............. tune in next week to see how the mucky lady solves this mystery!

I am so hoooked burnt

LOL but think the real villain remains hidden whilst the obvious suspect takes all the heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apologies; just realised this has already been answered ! A lot of reading to catch up on.

OMG, can't stop laughing, my colleagues think I've gone loopy!!!!
Or have I???????

And I fear if I wake DH once more after midnight to tell him what my imaginary friends (and detractors) have to say, I will be skeletonmum let alone skeletal..

Wow...you guys are amazing.!!!

Have been lurking and following since mid Jan after going through the high and lows of the entrance process a couple of years ago. I am a current parent (fee paying!) at Whitgift, and to be honest I think what Cinders55 said was pretty unbiased and a fairly accurate reflection of what a number of W parents feel. Have reread her comments a couple of times and dont think it is bitter but she is simply stating her opinions with a few facts(?!) thrown in. The Oxbridge Stat about KCS is one such fact.

For what its worth my view on the issues she raised. Has the school and year groups grown to big, the general feeling is that they have. It is fair to say that Whitgift will add a class if demand is their or needs require, whereas other schools are far more rigid on the year group structure. Trinity got caught a a couple of years ago and have clearly said never again. Asking boys to sit GCSE's at Croydon College is a real live issue for Whitgift parents ( not mine hopefully - will find out in a couple of years!) and if you were paying full fees like us you might feel a touch agrieved.......

In terms of the social dynamic I cant answer for Cinder, but there have been numerous incidents with disruptive boys and it takes a while to settle a year group down, and teach them the Whitgift Way. Whether they are Sporty boys, coming for State primaries or boys on fee remissions i cant say and would be unfair to try and paint this way. Not sure if thats what she mean and maybe she can answer.

In terms of places available there are still places available as they have had a number of rejections, whether this is because of a lack of scholarships etc I dont know but it appears to have surprised them and this year there is no waiting list.

As Ladymuck says it is all about choices, if you have "Top Tier" choices like St Pauls or KCS you would not choose Whitgift, but they are clearly not right for every boy, but Whitgift is in my mind a school which offers my sons opportunities that he would not have got in the state system.

To end on a lighter note the current joke amongst Whitgift parents was on the website a month ago they proudly displayed the banner "A top 5 UK boarding/Day school" A couple of weeks ago this was changed to "A top 10 UK boarding/Day school"!!!!! No sources quoted but not sure what happened there and why the demotion but hoping next month wont have to change again, and also strange given the boarding house is not open yet!!!

Looking forward to welcoming those of you joining the roll call of Whitgift parents in September!!

shazoom- if already asked cinder55 with no response. please can you tell me your source about boys doing GCSE at Croydon college ?

Thanks SHAZ...for that insightful post...of great value!

Thank you, Shazoom. May I just say that although I was taken aback by Cinder's post, I do understand where she's coming from and as prospective parents it is very useful information, obviously to be balanced with other information.

I can only speak for myself, but I have to say it is a bit sad to be getting this information now, after we've made our decisions. Maybe if current parents could have posted their views in January or February, even beginning of March, it migt have been a bit more helpful? I, for one, would not have been swayed, but I would have felt more informed instead of getting this post facto bucket of cold water.. We had an excellent alternative, not a Quest Academy. And hearing about disruptive boys really makes my heart sink..

Having said that - ths forum is indeed very open and frank. I suppose many other schools don't have this kind of discussion and parents would walk in there none the wiser and only then find out what problems there may be. As someone else has said - all schools have their quota of challenges.

lfs2126 - my source is a pretty upset parent, whose DS just got their Mock GCSE results and been told that even he cannot sit exams at Whitgift this summer (predicted couple of A's but mainly B&C at GCSE). This is why I said it as a real live issue now going on now. Can I respectfully suggest you ask the school this question. Over last three years how many in GCSE year group and how many sat English and Maths at Whitgift, and what happened to the rest......

As said my DS is happy and so am i but there are issues at Whitgift, the School is going through lots of change at present and any parent sending their child their should be aware of these I think.